So, I turned off ramping today

[RRfireblade]

you ppl apparently dont know what raking is if you think 9-11bps is the standard.

And why is bouncing a mag or a tippy a double standard to an electric? Its a firepower upgrade, and its considered cheating too.

A better question would be WHY DO YOU LOYAL MAG USERS DEFEND THE MAG SO RELIGIOUSLY AND ALL OTHER GUNS ARE SQUAT ?

There I fixed it for ya.



EDIT: oh and fireblade, do you mind showing me the results of this "extensive" testing.

And why do all the mech users claim 13bps then? Most of them are mag users.

and forgive me for not knowing your "quite clear" position on mags cause you know I spend all my time following YOUR posts cause you are a paintball god.

I guess your reading comprehension is not ramped.

My ROF statement is what's been found to be true on the field during pro tourny play. I can get my Viking to hit 48bps upside down on my lap flicking the trigger too. Not sure why that means anything though. You still have to prove the markers set up legal and do it on the feild in normal play.Do you rake while snapping? Now that would be a LOL.

And.

YOU BROUGHT UP MAGS DODO BIRD. Mags have nothing to do with the question of the thread geez. That's was my point silly.

And FYI, I think ALL RT mags (and E/Xmags in stock config) should be considered illegal for Semi only play.

There, feel better now?

[yakitori]

I guess your reading comprehension is not ramped.

My ROF statement is what's been found to be true on the field during pro tourny play. I can get my Viking to hit 48bps upside down on my lap flicking the trigger too. Not sure why that means anything though. You still have to prove the markers set up legal and do it on the feild in normal play.Do you rake while snapping? Now that would be a LOL.

And.

YOU BROUGHT UP MAGS DODO BIRD. Mags have nothing to do with the question of the thread geez. That's was my point silly.

And FYI, I think ALL RT mags (and E/Xmags in stock config) should be considered illegal for Semi only play.

There, feel better now?

Ya I feel better now. . I dont snap while raking, but I dont have to "sustain" 15 bps while snapping either. That was my point. There are lots of scenarios you can come up w/ where you dont have to really "sustain" 15 bps. And I dont snap while raking, that would be goofy. But raking can be effective for a backman. And Most ppl dont play in the NPPL.

I can see that mag have nothing to do w/ ramping, but the statements afterward like "I dont use ramping, ramping is cheating, etc" But ppl excuse the bounce factor in mags, and it is Bias. Thats all I was trying to say.

[Lohman446]

I'm still waiting for the video of 15BPS for 8 seconds that I was told was so easy to do.

As to why I don't think it should be a skill that influences the outcome of the game. Come one now, shooting fast is not what thsi game was meant to be about, at least not to me. It is a skill though. Until I see some scientific proof that shooting with ramping IS safe (The ASTM has already said that shooting without enhanced triggers is reasonably safe) then I question it being allowed (yes I have used it). I could argue that using my .45 in play, as long as I only shoot to deflate bunkers is safe - prove it isn't...

[RRfireblade]

why do you ppl think that walking is the ONLY trigger technique. Every heard of that little hump in the middle of the trigger? well use it. I can keep well over 15 bps until I get a blister on my finger.

I agree that any noob can shoot a ramping gun fast, but Im kinda insulted because of all the practice Ive done to get 14-17.

Why is everyone excusing the RAKING fact.

I know a guy that can shoot his gun w/ 3 fingers faster than anyone Ive seen w/ 2. Is there any studys on that fireblade?

Your ROF is unsubstantiated so I won't argue that. I know a hundred people that think they can hit 17bps and I've never seen anyone do it for more than 2 shots in a row on a legal semi gun.

And Raking? Your kidding right? You think that's something new? You ever see anyone play pro do that effectively on the field? Yeah, didn't think so.Why? Cause it's an extremely limited way to fire only to gain a couple BPS.

Oh, the 3 finger urban myths.

Yeah, they go way back too. Think about the way a trigger works and what is required for the marker to fire consecutive shots and you'll realize that 3 fingers is no advantage at all even if you could pull off the proper sequence.Plus I've yet to ever see anyone do it with any proficiency either...also not a legal semi gun.

Trust me, I'm a classically trained guitarist for almost 30 years. I'm well versed in ALL the finger pulling options...and with either hand.

[Lohman446]

Your ROF is unsubstantiated so I won't argue that. I know a hundred people that think they can hit 17bps and I've never seen anyone do it for more than 2 shots in a row on a legal semi gun.

I can hit 55BPS on my mechanical Cocker with a Q-loader and sustain it for like the 1.8 seconds it takes to unload... oh, you wanted proof... umm, well, my finger hurts today, umm, its off being timed, umm... crap

[RRfireblade]

As to why I don't think it should be a skill that influences the outcome of the game. Come one now, shooting fast is not what thsi game was meant to be about, at least not to me.

I totally agree. that's why I play stock class pump so often.

Plug Warning Ahead.... SCP Pump Day at Space Coast Paintball, next event May 28. Anyone with a pump welcome.


But it can make a difference. Imagine a dead even game, skill wise, but one team has a 20% better chance of getting a break each time they hit an opponent.That will add up rather quickly over the course of a weekend.

[Beemer]

Here

Go here and read all the posts by " Mntn " the thread starter when you have a few minutes or Mybe an hour in some cases.

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?threadid=543000&perpage=21&highlight=&pagenumber=1

Then SHOW me you shoot 15 on a LEGAL Semi.

Its not that peeps cant shoot that fast for real its just a lot lot lot less then Everybody thinks

fireblades statements are hardly worth siging esp since Sigs are no longer here.

What do you mean? I have a sig right here any time I want. Are you blind or just dont see?[no txt added yet]

And lets see some proof on how its is unsafe.

Hows this?

Post 33 here

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=160827

Now I know many of you aren't too worried about your fellow competitors. That if you shoot him 25 times, that's his bad luck. Many of you aren't aware that at the CFOA finale at Rock Hill, that there was a player who was bunkered by a ramping gun at point blank range in the head. The player who did the shooting was not malicious in his actions, but the quick pulls of the trigger did produce 6 shots to the mask of the player who got bunkered. Those 6 shots at that range broke the unaltered Profiler of the player who was bunkered. We were lucky and no injury occurred. Only the player who got his bell rung and had to buy some new goggles was the worse for wear.

Doesnt take a genius to figure that out.

Ya I know, I.A.D.S.P.B.P

__________________________________________________ __________________________________

[Lohman446]

I totally agree. that's why I play stock class pump so often.

Plug Warning Ahead.... SCP Pump Day at Space Coast Paintball, next event May 28. Anyone with a pump welcome.


But it can make a difference. Imagine a dead even game, skill wise, but one team has a 20% better chance of getting a break each time they hit an opponent.That will add up rather quickly over the course of a weekend.

Tell you what, I normally make a run away from the winter in January / February - it gets cold up north and paintball kinda dies down. I'll see about making one of those pump days next year.

[RRfireblade]

I can see that mag have nothing to do w/ ramping, but the statements afterward like "I dont use ramping, ramping is cheating, etc" But ppl excuse the bounce factor in mags, and it is Bias. Thats all I was trying to say.

I got you now.

And I agree 100% there too. I feel the same way about any kind of RTs. Read the Patents they ALL say "intended to enhance the players ROF", the proofs right in the pudding recipe.

And lastly I'll say this, I don't consider anything illegal 'generally'. If the league allows it, then it's legal...whatever it is. We have local ones here sometimes that occasionally allow Tippy RTs, whatcha gonna do?

The simple fact however is ramping and legal full auto exist only because of an inability of Tourny promoters and officials to catch and regulate Cheaters.

No other reason.

[RRfireblade]

Tell you what, I normally make a run away from the winter in January / February - it gets cold up north and paintball kinda dies down. I'll see about making one of those pump days next year.

I'll promise you this then.

You get down here to play anytime and it won't cost you a dime or will you need a play to stay.

Jay.

[yakitori]

Beemer. I said PROOF that it is unsafe. Not a thread bout the rule being instated. *scratches head* ummmm...okay.

and the guy shooting w/ three fingers was no lie. He did it on your fireblade trigger on my karta emag that I sold. It is a nice big long trigger. I couldnt believe it myself when he said it, but he did it. I cannot do it although Ive tried over and over and over..... I can only get it to do a burst.

And for the 14-16 bps sustained video. Watch Nicads hAir trigger video. He does it. Why is it so hard to believe. I can do it. I dont lie, and I dont appreciate you belittling my claim. I would put up a video if I could. I dont really know how, but I will try. It wont be in the next couple days though. It will have gaps in the shots though. I cannot reproduce a ramping gun in semi. My rythym is not THAT good, but I can definitely shoot faster than 9-11bps. I never claimed I could reproduce a ramping gun. And stop dismissing my claim for a "need to sustain 15 bps for 10 seconds" I said 5-8 seconds on a break. Prolly closer to 5. And Other than that, snapshooting and running and guning is basically it. Stop putting words in my mouth. I didnt state any "mythical" speed. I said that 15bps sustained is not all that necessary given speedball scenarios, but I can shoot it for as long as I need to.

IF you have a 15bps cap, that will limit your snapshooting. Even though you are only pulling a few balls, w/ an unlimited ROF cap (like WAS), you will be getting off maybe an extra 1-2 balls than if you have a cap. That of course will vary w/ how fast you snap out and how fast you get a few shots off.

The point of this thread has gotten way off base. Maybe its because you (Lohman) keep asking dumb questions like "is ramping good or bad, discuss" or "does shooting semi improve your game or not?" or "why have we accepted cheating" or "insert any other improbable question here"

Your rhetoric is getting annoying. You think about things too much. Ill tell you like Ive told my friend that reminds me of you. "Im sick of your philosophy" If you dont know why you are doing things you do, dont play paintball. Leave this sport. Stop the bickering and the questions that have no answer please.

I mean you are asking why we accept cheating, yet in the same thread you state that youve blatantly commited cheating acts. Like playing through, sliding in a way to wipe a shot, and bonus balling. How can you help find a solution to a problem when you are contributing to it.

Play or shut up. Thats my motto.

[firebanex]

Oh, the 3 finger urban myths.

Yeah, they go way back too. Think about the way a trigger works and what is required for the marker to fire consecutive shots and you'll realize that 3 fingers is no advantage at all even if you could pull off the proper sequence.Plus I've yet to ever see anyone do it with any proficiency either...also not a legal semi gun.

Trust me, I'm a classically trained guitarist for almost 30 years. I'm well versed in ALL the finger pulling options...and with either hand.

you have not met lester then, course you couldn't have he lives up here in Alaska. lester does use the 3 finger walk proficently and can shoot faster than any one else we have ever met up here. legaly to, he's done 16-17 on an Angel speed, does it regualrily on his dark timmy debounce 50, he did it on my ir3. next time zack has his camera at the field we'll get him to tape it.

lester is insane with his 3walk as we all call it, i'm not sure how he does it but he pulls it off like its nothing to him, anywho i'll get a video someday of it.

oh topic what was it? oh ramping... my gun has ramping but its locked and i can't use any modes, not that I care i can do 10-12 and spike to 14 and that fast enough for me, legal to, ir3's doesn't have debounce or any of that crap. I really don't like to shoot fast except for snap shots, come out shoot like 4 balls at 10-12 and then i'm back in.

also why I mostly play stock class, save money and I play a ton better w/ a pump even though I've used a semi for far longer than a pump. I also like the handicap it puts on me, i got to rely on my skill to shoot some one with one ball rather than shooting a lot more to hit the same target.

[RRfireblade]

you have not met lester then, course you couldn't have he lives up here in Alaska.

That probably explains it.

I don't doubt it can be done. I just haven't seen anyone do it well in person. I can do it myself but not any faster than 2 fingers. I can do it with my off hand as well.

I just mean that basically, the trigger has to be pulled and released in that order. In order to use a third finger, both other fingers have to be off the trigger. One on, one off, one off. That's the walk. Using a third finger simply doesn't add any speed. It's not like drumming your fingers on a table or in the case of guitar ,hammering out a musical sequence where one finger can follow the previous ones and the others can lag behind on the release. (if that's understandable). You still have to pull and release before the next finger can go. There's plenty of time to get the previous finger ready for the next shot while the current one is in process tht's all.If you had multiple triggers, now that would be a different story.

[Beemer]

You Are Joking Right?

Beemer. I said PROOF that it is unsafe. Not a thread bout the rule being instated. *scratches head* ummmm...okay.

That was the link I took the quote from. Post number 33. The quote is in my post[read it again Sherlock ] Here it is again for your reading pleasure. Now think what if that had been 12 15 or 20 hits

Now I know many of you aren't too worried about your fellow competitors. That if you shoot him 25 times, that's his bad luck. Many of you aren't aware that at the CFOA finale at Rock Hill, that there was a player who was bunkered by a ramping gun at point blank range in the head. The player who did the shooting was not malicious in his actions, but the quick pulls of the trigger did produce 6 shots to the mask of the player who got bunkered. Those 6 shots at that range broke the unaltered Profiler of the player who was bunkered. We were lucky and no injury occurred. Only the player who got his bell rung and had to buy some new goggles was the worse for wear.

Heres the key sentence for ya in case ya missed it again.

Those 6 shots at that range broke the unaltered Profiler of the player who was bunkered.

You just earned your I.A.D.S.P.B.P. Patch

[mark_1791]

You just earned your I.A.D.S.P.B.P. Patch

Whats that?