Rigging a Tippmann-like Response Trigger

[peeeto]

i'm considering trying to make a tippmann "response trigger"-like mod for my mech tac-one, and wanted to get some feedback before buying some parts:

for initial testing, i thought i'd try to capture the "blow-back" gas (just using the term, i know mags are blow-forward) from the barrel porting (seal off the barrel ports & direct the gas to a small air cylinder) just to see what kind of force i can get out of the cylinder.

from my initial search, i found these small diameter cylinders at McMaster-Carr that would fit inside the intelliframe (0.19" dia., 0.87" or 1.31" length). they reportedly get about 2 lb force from 100psi.

if it works, i could find a way to mount the cylinder in the intelli to push back on the trigger, then try to find a relatively easy, simple way to capture the blowback gas (if the barrel porting capture method works, i might just keep that way, as i don't know if i want to experiment with drilling & tapping various places on my only mainbody).

any thoughts?

one possible way might be to tap into the side of the mainbody just before the spot where the barrel meets the inside of the mainbody when the barrel's screwed in (just forward of where another detent would be installed on the other sde of the mainbody).

one way to test the pressure near there would be to remove the existing detent and replace it with a nipple for the airline to the cylinder.

anyone have any thoughts on the pressure available there right after a ball is fired? is it too far back from where the bolt is in forward position firing a ball?

i have some other ideas about where to tap through the mainbody, but wanted to get this out there for discussion first...

thanks in advance...

[mostpeople]

The trigger is already a reactive trigger.. well on the RT valves anyways. I dont understand why you would want something else?

You want full auto? Get an ULT and a 1000psi input and you're set..

[peeeto]

The trigger is already a reactive trigger.. well on the RT valves anyways. I dont understand why you would want something else?

You want full auto? Get an ULT and a 1000psi input and you're set..

yes, i already have ULT (6 shims), and upped the pressure of my tank to 1100 psi. still not like the Tippmann, which i really like (i don't wanna hear it! to each his own! :P )

basically, i don't think it pushes back hard enough (for my tastes, anyways). not reliable enough for me in the heat of battle - chuffs alot (which i'm still plyaing around with working the bugs out as it may be my setup and/or the way i pull the trigger, but i don't think it'll be working for me...).

i think that if i can get a strong push back on the trigger, it'll be alot more controllable for me, and i'll be much happier with it - i'm gonna try it because i don't think it'll cost me much in time or money to investigate...

whew! i feel alot better after having to justify myself!

[mostpeople]

Here is my suggestion then.. get an ASA tapped for 1 ASA input, and 2 NPT outputs. Use one to go ro the valve, and the other to go into the gripframe. Where when the trigger comes back it hits a poppet or some other type of push pin valve and releases air to a ram that pushes foreward with great force. You'll probably need an adjustable LPR in there somewhere.

Its a different take on the pneumag, but it could be fun. Do you get what I mean? Its a lot simpler than the method you described of capturing the air from the porting etc..

[peeeto]

oh yeah, i totally see what you mean...

very interesting idea. may be a little more complex and certainly more costly (mostly because of the required low pressure regulator). and, alot more parts to fit into place (i.e. more milling, tapping, mounting). but, an excellent way to get a consistent, controllable force to push back the trigger!

i think i'll pursue trying to capture the air from (relatively) available areas first, just to see how much force i can get on the actuater, which is only ~$12.

[mostpeople]

As always, go for it - but it wont work. Your ball trajectories/velocities will be inconsistant.

This is the simpler way I assure you..

(usually the cheaper way is the worst way)

[mostpeople]

http://www.zdspb.com/media/tech/animations/pneumag_5fps.gif

as you can see the bolt covers the spot where the detent would be, the pressure would no be much, and inconsistant at best.


And the shroud thing.. ya almost no capturable/usable pressure.

[PBChappy]

dump the ult and go with a standard rt on/off have that set up on mine with 1150psi going to the valve and have yet to see a tippman even come close to touching my rt rate my Vlocity can barely keep up with it also i just a logic 90deg frame and just something about that trigger bounces better then my viperblade inteli frame

[d4m4don3]

dump the ult and go with a standard rt on/off have that set up on mine with 1150psi going to the valve and have yet to see a tippman even come close to touching my rt rate my Vlocity can barely keep up with it also i just a logic 90deg frame and just something about that trigger bounces better then my viperblade inteli frame

This man is right, the ult slows down reactivity. It's supposed to make the Tac One legal friendly on the field unless someone overshims it. The regular rt on/off is already reactive but setting it to 1000psi or more will cause the marker to bounce like crazy faster than the ult or a tippman with a response trigger.

[angrysasquatch]

Here is my suggestion then.. get an ASA tapped for 1 ASA input, and 2 NPT outputs. Use one to go ro the valve, and the other to go into the gripframe. Where when the trigger comes back it hits a poppet or some other type of push pin valve and releases air to a ram that pushes foreward with great force. You'll probably need an adjustable LPR in there somewhere.

Its a different take on the pneumag, but it could be fun. Do you get what I mean? Its a lot simpler than the method you described of capturing the air from the porting etc..

Maybe you could do that with a pneumag. You'd have pneumag trigger lightness and still have bounce. You'd probably need Stormwalk real estate to fit it all though.

[mostpeople]

The retarted thing about this is that he wants to create an RT on an RT trigger..

[peeeto]

The retarted thing about this is that he wants to create an RT on an RT trigger..

"retarded" - thanks alot, man. i expect more from people around here. how depressing to have read that this morning.

i happen to like the way the Tippmann RT works. the AGD RT was not designed to be just like the Tippmann RT, so saying that it's "retarded" that i'm trying to create a (Tippmann-like) RT on a (AGD) RT makes no sense - the AGD RT is not just like the Tippmann RT to begin with.


PBChappy - i did try that out before, and didn't seem happy with it, but that's before i was able to get a little more pressure out of my tank reg (i tried it when i had output of ~950psi). thanks for reminding me, i will have to try that again now that i'm getting so much more from the tank.

[conbon]

1) Mount an LPR on your bottomline.

2) Run hose inside frame.

3) Somehow mount a Tippmann RT assembly.

4) Connect hose.

5) Cross fingers, hope it works.

[peeeto]

1) Mount an LPR on your bottomline.

2) Run hose inside frame.

3) Somehow mount a Tippmann RT assembly.

4) Connect hose.

5) Cross fingers, hope it works.

thanks, but what you suggest is essentially the same thing that mostpeople suggested 10 posts back, except he recognized that you'd need a poppet or something to activate upon each trigger pull.

and the Tippmann RT assembly is nothing more than a pneumatic air cylinder (almost same as what i found at McMaster-Carr and Clippard. in fact, it wouldn't suprise me if one of the stock Clippard units is the same exact one Tippmann uses for their kit) plus some lines & fittings to carry the blowback pressure to it. so why would i spend $100 on stuff i can get for $20 or less?

[peeeto]

dump the ult and go with a standard rt on/off have that set up on mine with 1150psi going to the valve and have yet to see a tippman even come close to touching my rt rate my Vlocity can barely keep up with it also i just a logic 90deg frame and just something about that trigger bounces better then my viperblade inteli frame

ok, i tried it with the stock on/off and a blade trigger on the intelliframe. it does give a good kick back, but not as pronounced and controllable as Tippmann RT.

i'm sure i'd get vastly better reactivity with a better tank regulator (i only have a PMI Reactor reg on the tank, which i've shimmed to increase the output pressure), but they are much more $ than just a few parts to try this idea out.