G-force pneumatic grip?

[TwilightG]

As far as I know it shoudn't be a problem.

The only comments I have seen is that it isn't necessary to use a ult. But it should work fine.

Worse case is you sell the ult for $45 and buy a rt on/off for $20.

I think Garf (G-Force Tech) mentioned that you waste more air using the ULT, but I don't quite understand how.

I'm pretty much in the same situation... my X-Valve only came w/ the ULT and don't have a spare RT on/off. I was planning on just keeping the ULT in there anyway unless I notice a significant drop in air efficiency. Of course, the pneumatics will use more air to begin with so it'll be difficult to judge how much efficiency I'd be losing.

[JLag-2/69]

I think ill stick with the ULT then unless someone can give me a serious performance reason why to ditch it. I dont mind using a little more air, if that is the case. Hey, we didnt by Automags for their reputation of being air efficient, we bought them for performance and solid design. Besides, I just bought a Nitro duck ireg 70/45 stubby so i think ill be good on air

Thanks for the help guys!

[lasrsktr]

Well in my pneumag i use a emag length on/off with a Quad oring instead of a ULT because i found myself short stroking the valve to much when i had a ULT installed in the valve.


Its a matter of preference but i enjoy the Emag .712 pin in the on/off over a ULT.

[TwilightG]

Well in my pneumag i use a emag length on/off with a Quad oring instead of a ULT because i found myself short stroking the valve to much when i had a ULT installed in the valve.


Its a matter of preference but i enjoy the Emag .712 pin in the on/off over a ULT.

Excuse my ignorance, but I thought that you couldn't short-stroke a pneu-setup since the sear wasn't directly "connected" to the trigger-pull.

So is it the 3-way valve that is susceptible to short-stroking? causing the piston to not fully actuate the sear?

Does the reactive-ness of the on/off have any impact on the pneumatics? I know that it should not have any affect on the trigger pull.

Please enlighten me

[Spider-TW]

Excuse my ignorance, but I thought that you couldn't short-stroke a pneu-setup since the sear wasn't directly "connected" to the trigger-pull.

So is it the 3-way valve that is susceptible to short-stroking? causing the piston to not fully actuate the sear?

Does the reactive-ness of the on/off have any impact on the pneumatics? I know that it should not have any affect on the trigger pull.

Please enlighten me

Reactivity would help return the MPA-3, but you would have to have an electro-pneu to make a difference. Classics work fine as pneus and have no noticeable reactivity, so reactivity has little impact at human rates.

Once the sear releases the bolt, it's gone, no matter how you creep up on it. It's the valve recharge that gets messed up.

The trigger travel is short on a pneu, so it is harder to short stroke because there is so little opportunity to do it. However, if you drop one finger right as you are letting the other finger off the trigger, you can catch the bolt on the return, before the valve recharges. Without an electronic or pneumatic delay, the only way to avoid it is to train your fingers. I'm talking about short stroking while walking the trigger. You have to really work at it with one finger.

[TwilightG]

Thanks for the lesson

That makes more sense now..
So how does the on/off valve-type make a difference as Lasrsktr pointed out?

Based on this explanation, it shouldn't.. unless I missed something.

[Spider-TW]

As he said, there is some preference involved. Depending on the mechanical layout of your MSV-2, it will have more or less return force on the trigger (how long is the lever, where did you put the trigger rod, how much pressure are you running in the LPR). With a ULT having very light force in the first place, the trigger return can be too light. The trigger can be slow to return if you tune the LPR for just enough force to push the sear. Your are correct in that for the same LPR pressure, a pneumag trigger should feel the same for either on/off. A ULT becomes an additional adjustment in your pneu train and the best operating pressure for the pneus can be harder to find any time it needs adjustment.

If you look at the span of on/off pin lengths, you can see there is a range of about 0.050 inches between them. Most stock pins are 0.750. By design, you have to allow play for variations in manufacturing, (re-)assembly, and wear. By shortening the pin or pushing the on/off top seal up with washers on a ULT, you delay the point that the on/off seals off relative to the sear catching/releasing the bolt. Normally you have an overlap that latches up the bolt on return before opening the on/off. If you adjust it very close, the bolt will start to push back out before the sear is fully engaged. This makes the trigger break very crisp, but it doesn't wear well and is not consistent as the bumper, springs and other parts wear (or if you don't tighten the frame screws as tight as before).

I think the difference in the 'quad' orings for the emags is that they sit lower on the on/off top, compared to the actual sealing surface of a round oring, requiring a shorter pin to get the same operation. You can run a 0.712 pin with a regular oring in some markers; it just barely catches the bolt, if at all.

If you look at the on/off pin, there's about 0.100 inches of sealing surface available. You only need enough to match the inner surface of the on/off oring, if you hit it right.

[Spider-TW]

If you look at where lasrsktr's trigger rod hits the trigger, it's right at the top. That gives it a lot of leverage. It makes the trigger pull more consistent between the upper and lower fingers, but it needs SOME pressure to push it back out. Pneus can be silly light.

Probably a ball bearing trigger too, eh lasrsktr?

[TwilightG]

Awesome explanation! Thanks a lot

I think I'll just wait and see how the ULT performs w/ the G-Force frame out-of-the-box. If I run into any tuning issues, I might just try to make a quick trade for an RT on/off.

[Spider-TW]

I haven't made it through that whole thread yet

Whatever they recommend would be best to start with, since you're paying for their design as well as their manufacturing.

[TwilightG]

I haven't made it through that whole thread yet

Whatever they recommend would be best to start with, since you're paying for their design as well as their manufacturing.

That thread is very tough to read too.. there's a lot of good info but a lot of redundant questions too.

There really should have been a new thread made once the frame production was officially announced.

[Andrew Cunje]

i like the bob long asa....but what other asas' are u all looking to use with ur frame?


bob long is probably my number one choice before the non-on-off cp one