Need some more hlpe with my Lvl & Automag

[Eddie9195]

Hello,
I recently purchased an older used Automag. The first one I have owned. When I bought it, it leaked down the barrel. I bought a repair kit and changed all of the o-rings and now it will not fire. It only seems to partially gas up. I can turn the reg in most of the way in and it will try to fire, but then leaks down the barrel. I am totally lost as to what could be wrong with it and do not know of any local shops that can check it out for me.

Any ideas are greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[questionful]

Please take this survey to give us a better idea of what's wrong with it. :)

Do you have a lvl7 or lvl10 bolt?
Do you have a classic valve or RT valve (ReTro, RT pro, Emag, X, etc.)?
Do you have the classic on/off, an RT on/off, or a ULT?
Air it up. Does the sear rod (the thing behind the trigger) pop out? Do you hear any leaks?
Pull the trigger and HOLD IT DOWN. Did the bolt move at all? Do you hear any leaks?

[Eddie9195]

Sorry I was holding down the shift key when I typed my subject line, it was supposed to say Lvl 7!

Do you have a lvl7 or lvl10 bolt? Lvl 7.

Do you have a classic valve or RT valve (ReTro, RT pro, Emag, X, etc.)? I think it is a classic valve.

Do you have the classic on/off, an RT on/off, or a ULT? I think it too is the classic.

Air it up. Does the sear rod (the thing behind the trigger) pop out? Yes, but it seems to stick and not reset everytime. Also, is it supposed to wobble up and down?

Do you hear any leaks? Not until I crank in the reg.

Pull the trigger and HOLD IT DOWN. Did the bolt move at all? Not without the reg cranked in.

Do you hear any leaks? Not without the reg cranked up.

Here is a link to the first post I made right after I bought it:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=227863

Thanks again.

[questionful]

Maybe your powertube spacer is too small. Do you have a spacer kit? You could also try making shims for it or something just to diagnose.

Or maybe the stuff in the powertube is out of order. It should be like this.


barrel . . . [powertube tip][spacer][O-ring] . . . valve

[Eddie9195]

Thanks for the reply. No I do not have a spacer kit yet. And I checked the the parts are in the right order. Guess I will get a kit and see of they help.

I thought Automags were supposed to be so reliable and easy to fix. I am not impressed so far.

[secretweaponevan]

I can turn the reg in most of the way in and it will try to fire, but then leaks down the barrel.

What do you mean "it will try to fire"? Does it make a "chuffing" sound?
also,
Does it leak when aired up?
Does the leak stop when you hold the trigger back?

[BlackVCG]

Here's a few things to check out:

Make sure the powertube spacer say .220 or .225. It should be brass in color, not an anodized spacer or a spring.

Make sure the order is o-ring first, then spacer, then power tube tip.

Now, as for the on/off assembly, make sure the pin is .750" and the grooved end of the pin is facing down towards the trigger frame when the valve is in the gun. Also make sure the order of parts is yellow o-ring around a white teflon o-ring, then brass piece which should have four holes in it, then stainless steel piece with white o-ring in the top and yellow o-ring around the base, then the pin with the groove facing away from the inside of the valve.

When you unscrew the two halves of the valve you should have a pin pressed into a spring coming out of the longer half of the valve, and then a yellow disc (reg. seat) held into the back half of the valve body.

If all of this is correct, then when you gas it up, and keep turning up the velocity it should start shooting.

If it starts leaking down the barrel, then the powertube spacer is too long, or the o-ring is bad.

If you keep cranking up the velocity and it still doesn't shoot, make sure the field strip screw that holds down the valve is only hand tight. Sometimes they can be finicky and if you overtighten them, the gun will only chuff.

Mags are simple, just educate yourself first and don't get frustrated and they will make total sense and last forever.

[Eddie9195]

What do you mean "it will try to fire"? Does it make a "chuffing" sound? I guess you could call it that.
also,
Does it leak when aired up? Not if the reg is backed out.
Does the leak stop when you hold the trigger back? Yes, it will stop leaking if I pull back on the trigger.

Make sure the powertube spacer say .220 or .225. It should be brass in color, not an anodized spacer or a spring. There is a brass spacer, I will have to check the markings after work today.

Make sure the order is o-ring first, then spacer, then power tube tip. This is all correct. I watched the Tom Kaye videos on youtube to see if I could find the problem, but no help other than being able to tell the parts are all there and in the right place.

Now, as for the on/off assembly, make sure the pin is .750" (how do i do this, I do not have a caliper?) and the grooved end of the pin is facing down towards the trigger frame when the valve is in the gun. Also make sure the order of parts is yellow o-ring around a white teflon o-ring, then brass piece which should have four holes in it, then stainless steel piece with white o-ring in the top and yellow o-ring around the base, then the pin with the groove facing away from the inside of the valve. I have checked all of this and it appears to be correct.

When you unscrew the two halves of the valve you should have a pin pressed into a spring coming out of the longer half of the valve, and then a yellow disc (reg. seat) held into the back half of the valve body. All of this looks good. The only thing I notice different than the video is that the spring the goes into the longer half of the valve body is a tight fit and is hard to take out or put in.
If all of this is correct, then when you gas it up, and keep turning up the velocity it should start shooting. When I turn up the velocity it starts to leak down the barrel and only tries to fire.

If it starts leaking down the barrel, then the powertube spacer is too long, or the o-ring is bad. I replaced the oring, so that should be OK. I guess my next step is the power tube spacer kit.

If you keep cranking up the velocity and it still doesn't shoot, make sure the field strip screw that holds down the valve is only hand tight. Sometimes they can be finicky and if you overtighten them, the gun will only chuff.

Mags are simple, just educate yourself first and don't get frustrated and they will make total sense and last forever.

Thanks again for all of the help!!

[secretweaponevan]

Well, your powertube o-ring is definitely not sealing against the bolt.

Examine the bolt. Does it have any scratches/gouges on the end that goes in the powertube? If so it could be eating your o-ring alive. Other than that, what BlackVCG said about the o-ring/spacer.

Is it an AGD bolt with a three-pointed foamie, or an aftermarket bolt?

[Eddie9195]

Does it have any scratches/gouges on the end that goes in the powertube? I will have to look at it tonight after work and see. I did not see anything wrong with it though. But I did not look too closely at it.
Is it an AGD bolt with a three-pointed foamie, or an aftermarket bolt? I think it is an AGD bolt. No foamie though, just a metal 3 point insert. I will try and post a pic later.

Thanks again for the help and ideas. Hopefully I can get it up and running.

[Eddie9195]

OK, so after work today I came home and checked the power tube spacer. It is a .235. However I noticed that there is not a spring inside the power tube. Is there supposed to be a spring and the spacer?

I watched the video by Tom Kaye and it just shows a spring and no spacer. Now I am confused.

Thanks again.

[questionful]

Old automags had a spring, new ones have JUST a spacer. You're good.

With the reg cranked up AND the trigger held down, where do you hear a leak from (if any)? What happens when you let go of the trigger immediately afterwards?

Try a smaller spacer if you have one. If you don't, you could try making one, or filing down your current one, but that's risky.

How hard is your powertube O-ring? Here's what I'm thinking. You say it leaks down the barrel when you air it up, which could be a bad powertube O-ring, or too big of a spacer. But then you say the trigger sometimes gets stuck? That sounds like bolt-stick, which could be a bad powertube O-ring or too small of a spacer. And then you say it leaks (down the barrel?) when you crank up the reg if it didn't leak when you air it up? So I thought, maybe your powertube O-ring is hard. This would make it so the bolt piston (the rod in the center) couldn't back into the O-ring all the way, which could cause the bolt stick. It would also leak with enough pressure. So, maybe switch it with one in your on/off assembly, and see what happens. Also, is it lubed up well?

[Spider-TW]

Keep on track with these guys Eddie. Being a used mag means it could have normal wear or it could have some really 'd problem. None of them are unfixable, just unexpected.

On a different angle, with your bolt spring on the bolt, how far would you say the spring extends beyond the tip of the bolt? It should be about 1/8" to 1/4" longer. Is/was the bolt spring black or bare metal?

I didn't see the answer to your easy question: yes the trigger rod (between the back of the trigger and attached to the sear) flops around without air on the marker. it is captured on the sides and bottom by the frame and on the top by the safety lug of the trigger. When there is force on it, it centers up on the trigger. With air on and the trigger hanging all the way forward, there should be a business-card-thick gap between the trigger and the rod, so the trigger will be a little loose also. The gap can be up to a millimeter or so. It isn't critical in size, but there should be a small one.

[seekandestroy78]

noone has gone with the obvious answer of oil it?

that will solve 9/10 problems with mag valves.

[Spider-TW]

noone has gone with the obvious answer of oil it?

that will solve 9/10 problems with mag valves.

questionful hit it, but Eddie hasn't said as far as I can see.

The only thing I notice different than the video is that the spring the goes into the longer half of the valve body is a tight fit and is hard to take out or put in.

That's normal. As long as it is clean down there, you don't need to take it out. Always twist it (torque it, it doesn't have to spin much) in the direction it is wound while taking it in or out and that will help.