Consistency, or lack there of

[Friendly-fire]

So when I first got my tac it was incredibly consistent, almost always +/- 3 and often less. But after a few months the accuracy fell off to +/- 10 sometimes more, and it has been like that for around a year. (So yes I have had my gun a few months over a year). Does anyone know why the consistency dropped off? I clean my gun regularly, I have put a ULT and a y grip on it, I have changed carrier o rings when the first one would either leak or stick with if I stepped the carrier size up or down one.

I have not taken apart the reg in the back though, do I need to clean this out? Does it affect the consistency that much that you need to clean it every couple of months or half year? Any help would be awesome, as me and some friends are going to try to do a local tournament in a few months and I want my gun to shoot like I know it once did.

[Watcher]

As far as I know, the reg springs can get dirty and "sticky" because the open end can get dirt, water, etc in them.

Might be a good idea to open the end cap, take the springs out, whipe them down, re-grease them, and put them back.

While you are in there check the o-ring on the reg piston.


It is possible that it just broke in, and a lot of times it is how you handle the trigger since it is so responsive.

Also keep in mind that to get an accurate chrono reading you have to hold the trigger, then release and pull it as fast as possible. The rate of fire changes the velocity reading...

[2fast2smart]

Also keep in mind that to get an accurate chrono reading you have to hold the trigger, then release and pull it as fast as possible. The rate of fire changes the velocity reading...

Does this not make sense to anyone else?

[Friendly-fire]

Actually just let this thread die, I found some good info on the forums for basically my same question, sorry I didn't find it before and posted this. I'll continue it if I still have issues.

[punkncat]

To be honest, I never found my RT mags to be particularly consistant. With the little trigger trick mentioned above I could get them to be pretty close. I noted that when I fired over the chrono the way I actually pulled the trigger on field, that I was shooting a great deal "hotter", and even questioned that method as a result. No matter, and not particularly on subject, lol.
I did find that after putting in a ULT that consistancy got much better.

Now my classic mags on the other hand were always pretty much right on, shot to shot, even with screwy paint.


Anywho, sorry for the slight detour. Carry on.

[2fast2smart]

Actually just let this thread die, I found some good info on the forums for basically my same question, sorry I didn't find it before and posted this. I'll continue it if I still have issues.

Well do us all a favor and post what you found here, maybe some other people will have the same question, and this will help them.

To be honest, I never found my RT mags to be particularly consistant. With the little trigger trick mentioned above I could get them to be pretty close. I noted that when I fired over the chrono the way I actually pulled the trigger on field, that I was shooting a great deal "hotter", and even questioned that method as a result. No matter, and not particularly on subject, lol. I did find that after putting in a ULT that consistancy got much better. Now my classic mags on the other hand were always pretty much right on, shot to shot, even with screwy paint. Anywho, sorry for the slight detour. Carry on.

So for someone new to mags, hows that trigger trick work again?
And what is the best way to try and get consistent shots on the field?
Would using an inline reg instead of an air through grip help with shot consistency?

[Watcher]

Because of how fast the valve recharges the air heats up and sits at a higher pressure. So if you shoot once, let it sit a few seconds and shoot again it might sit around 280. But if you shoot several times within a second it will rapidly climb to 290 or higher.

So to simulate this you have to hold the trigger down to choke the valve off, then when you release the trigger the valve recharges and you have to quickly fire it off before the air in the valve can cool.
This will give you the "hottest" reading on the marker so you won't velocity ramp on the field.

It should have been explained in the marker's manual but here is a link to the technical data on AGD's site. I know it says for the RT but since the valves excepting the classic valves are designed the same (RT, RTPro, EMag, X, etc) they all react the same way.

[2fast2smart]

Because of how fast the valve recharges the air heats up and sits at a higher pressure. So if you shoot once, let it sit a few seconds and shoot again it might sit around 280. But if you shoot several times within a second it will rapidly climb to 290 or higher.

So to simulate this you have to hold the trigger down to choke the valve off, then when you release the trigger the valve recharges and you have to quickly fire it off before the air in the valve can cool.
This will give you the "hottest" reading on the marker so you won't velocity ramp on the field.

It should have been explained in the marker's manual but here is a link to the technical data on AGD's site. I know it says for the RT but since the valves excepting the classic valves are designed the same (RT, RTPro, EMag, X, etc) they all react the same way.

Thanks!

Also, what is the best way to try and get consistent shots on the field?
And would using an inline reg instead of an air through grip help with shot consistency?

[Watcher]

I don't remeber exactly why but I think people suggest against external regulators.

Best thing to do is play with the pressure and adjust it to your style, I guess...
A reg would help you do this, but I'm not too sure. Maybe the regs don't recharge fast enough or something

I have mine going at about 800psi and I don't notice much inconsistancy shot to shot. I think I got mine right in the middle under the "medium input pressure" catagory.

Punkncat said a ULT helped him...

[Spider-TW]

I don't remeber exactly why but I think people suggest against external regulators.

It's because external regs are just plain evil.

The main consideration is that the mag reg should be able to do the job very well. If it is not working well, then an external reg just gives you something else to adjust while not fixing the problem.

Another problem is that mag valves, especially the reactive valves, like high recharge flow and an external reg is just another restriction.

Last problem is that you're adding more weight to the marker and seals and springs to the system to be failure points.

A palmer's stabilizer is fashionably acceptable on a CO2 setup, but that's about it.

[Friendly-fire]

Well do us all a favor and post what you found here, maybe some other people will have the same question, and this will help them.

Sure, it is actually in some of this forums stickies, I just assumed search would pull those threads up. I am surprised it didn't, since I used a lot of the keywords in them, anyway here they are.

Valve Disassembly

Reg Seat Info

I could use some confirmation though, the first has you take out the reg seat to clean and oil as part of your cleaning process. The second one says every time you take a reg seat out you need to get a new one. Shame I didn't read that till after I took it out (Guess I will see how my gun is performing this weekend)

Second, I have an exploded and labeled view of the X-valve which has two reg seat's labeled. The one that sits under the reg seat holder and the one that sits on the other side, inside of the reg seat holder itself. Some clarification on this would be nice.

[Watcher]

On the classic valve the reg seat was one thick o-ring that was tapered, that was the one mentioned in the second link. On the RT valves, such as the X-valve, this was ditched for a better design which is the reg-seat o-ring, the brass seat, and the little o-ring for the brass seat. It does basically the same thing, only it is more durable and easier to maintain.

You can take those out and play with them all you want... just don't lose them
Check them to see if they are hard, worn out, or brown and replace them if necessary.

As far as the old classic reg seats, I don't own a classic valve and have never worked on one and thus have no valid say on the matter of removing it or not.

[Spider-TW]

As far as the old classic reg seats, I don't own a classic valve and have never worked on one and thus have no valid say on the matter of removing it or not.

Removing them and putting them back is easy. I think the only problem is that the reg pin leaves a matching indention on the face of the seal. Chances are good that the indention isn't perfectly concentric with the hole, nor are the pin, reg piston, seal face and reg piston cylinder. So when you put the seal back in, that dent can cause a leak. This will show up as 'hot' first shots when the reg is leaking by and putting too much pressure in the valve over time.

I've only had this cause trouble a couple of times, usually with old, hard seats. If the seat is in good condition, you can usually get away with putting it back in. If you are at the field and stuck, you can sometimes flip the seat over and get it to seal. Also, it is a good use for a thick synthetic grease. A thin layer can prop a used seat up for a while.

[BigEvil]

The lower the input pressure into an Xvalve, the more consistent it seems to shoot for me. I never go more than 800-850 psi and I get +/- 5 if not better at the chrono. Barrel bores also seen to make a huge difference. As Cockerpunk said, UNDERBORE whenever possible.

[AnthonyDStone]

Grease the regulator Piston.Mags should never be worse than +/-5fps if maintained properly.