Fixing up an old 68 Classic

[athomas]

A level 10, orings and new piston will get you back in the game.

Powerfeeds intersect the the body at 90 degrees to prevent blowback air from pushing the ball stack away from the breach. They also allowed the blowback air to bounce the balls into the breach faster than gravity could feed them. The older powerfeed plugs were a bit shorter than the newer ones and had a bit of a flat spot which caused some of the balls to bind at the corner. Unfortunately sandpaper can't make them any longer. You might find an epoxy that will allow you to build the surface up so that you can shape it. I suspect it would be cheaper and easier to just by a feed plug though.

Revy hoppers are gravity fed. They do agitate but still rely on gravity to drop the balls. I was always out shooting mine with my 68Automag. The powerfeed is a must with this hopper if you don't have a level 10, but every once in a while you will pull the trigger before the ball is in the breach and chop it.

A level 10 is definately a preferred upgrade for any mag. Because of the higher operating pressures, most mags require the higher pressure piston. Even if it doesn't leak when you first use the level 10, eventually it will because operating pressure is so close to the release pressure of the piston that any wear will cause it to vent. The higher pressure pistons will work on any mag. It just makes the safety release pressure a bit higher. Most people only upgrade the level 10, but most will then experience leaking out the back in the very near future due to the piston.

As I mentioned before, the X-valve does come stock with the level 10 and higher pressure piston if you decide to go that route at a later date.

Don't use gun oil in your mag. It will eat the orings. Use a good quality synthetic air tool oil. Autolube is a good oil which is why it is supplied with automags, but any good, light synthetic oil will do.

[factoid]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'll add some light synthetic oil to my shopping list. Fortunately most of these parts are dirt cheap. A lot of these things have gotten quite a bit cheaper since I played last. I remember in 1999 a VL Revolution was about 70 or 80 bucks, now you can get one for under 20.

My shopping list continues to grow. I'm going to wait until I've played a few rounds before I decide on a level 10 bolt, but just to rehab the mag and get it back in service I'm going to pick up:

VL Rev + elbow (another part I'm conspicuously missing)
Autolube
O-Ring Replacement Kit
Barrel O-Rings
Tank O-Rings
Powerfeed plug
Barrel plug (also missing)

Fortunately for me I think the most expensive component on the list is the hopper.

Question about the high pressure piston: Would that require an increase in the pressure from my compressed air regulator? I think I used to keep mine set around 700-800PSI It's an adjustable valve, so I think I can take it up to 1000. What's the correct setting after putting the new piston in place?

[athomas]

Question about the high pressure piston: Would that require an increase in the pressure from my compressed air regulator? I think I used to keep mine set around 700-800PSI It's an adjustable valve, so I think I can take it up to 1000. What's the correct setting after putting the new piston in place?

The high pressure piston requirement is only because of the increase in operating pressure of the level 10 bolt. It doesn't affect the operation of the valve except for the increase in the amount of pressure that can build up before it vents.

The level 7 bolt requires about 350psi in the chamber to shoot a paintball at 280fps. A level 10 bolt requires between 400psi and 550 psi or higher in the chamber depending on the level 10 bolt spring being used. You should always have at least 200psi differential between the air pressure going into a regulator and the air pressure at the output of the regulator. If you run a red level 10 bolt spring the requirements of the bottle pressure regulator could be as high as 750psi or more. Higher is better. Any pressure differential greater than 200psi will help maintain a high air flow.

[factoid]

The high pressure piston requirement is only because of the increase in operating pressure of the level 10 bolt. It doesn't affect the operation of the valve except for the increase in the amount of pressure that can build up before it vents.

The level 7 bolt requires about 350psi in the chamber to shoot a paintball at 280fps. A level 10 bolt requires between 400psi and 550 psi or higher in the chamber depending on the level 10 bolt spring being used. You should always have at least 200psi differential between the air pressure going into a regulator and the air pressure at the output of the regulator. If you run a red level 10 bolt spring the requirements of the bottle pressure regulator could be as high as 750psi or more. Higher is better. Any pressure differential greater than 200psi will help maintain a high air flow.

Wow that's a lot of extra pressure. Is it correct to infer from this that I can expect to use air more air with a Level 10 bolt? i.e. fewer shots per fill? My assumption is that if the volume remains constant but the pressure is greater I must be using more air per shot.

[athomas]

The chamber uses higher pressure, but it also has a higher residual pressure left over after the shot. It does use a bit more air, but only really noticeable if you don't have the most efficient barrel for the setup you are using. The air impulse is different using the level 10 than it is with the level 7. Therefore. the length of barrel for best efficiency is also affected.

[factoid]

The chamber uses higher pressure, but it also has a higher residual pressure left over after the shot. It does use a bit more air, but only really noticeable if you don't have the most efficient barrel for the setup you are using. The air impulse is different using the level 10 than it is with the level 7. Therefore. the length of barrel for best efficiency is also affected.

Is there a method for calculating the most efficient length of a barrel? From what I've read here the optimal length for most barrels is 11". I'm pretty sure mine is a 12, because I don't think I've ever seen an 11" barrel on sale.

[athomas]

For a level 7 mag, the optimal length is about 10.5", unported. No one has really tested/posted the efficiency length for a level 10 bolt.

[tosburn3]

A level 10, orings and new piston will get you back in the game.

Powerfeeds intersect the the body at 90 degrees to prevent blowback air from pushing the ball stack away from the breach. They also allowed the blowback air to bounce the balls into the breach faster than gravity could feed them. The older powerfeed plugs were a bit shorter than the newer ones and had a bit of a flat spot which caused some of the balls to bind at the corner. Unfortunately sandpaper can't make them any longer. You might find an epoxy that will allow you to build the surface up so that you can shape it. I suspect it would be cheaper and easier to just by a feed plug though.

Revy hoppers are gravity fed. They do agitate but still rely on gravity to drop the balls. I was always out shooting mine with my 68Automag. The powerfeed is a must with this hopper if you don't have a level 10, but every once in a while you will pull the trigger before the ball is in the breach and chop it.

A level 10 is definately a preferred upgrade for any mag. Because of the higher operating pressures, most mags require the higher pressure piston. Even if it doesn't leak when you first use the level 10, eventually it will because operating pressure is so close to the release pressure of the piston that any wear will cause it to vent. The higher pressure pistons will work on any mag. It just makes the safety release pressure a bit higher. Most people only upgrade the level 10, but most will then experience leaking out the back in the very near future due to the piston.

As I mentioned before, the X-valve does come stock with the level 10 and higher pressure piston if you decide to go that route at a later date.

Don't use gun oil in your mag. It will eat the orings. Use a good quality synthetic air tool oil. Autolube is a good oil which is why it is supplied with automags, but any good, light synthetic oil will do.

Yeah revys use gravity, but under constant agitation thats still 10+ bps. Did your revy have an x-board?

I outshot the classic valve before I outshot the revy. Never had any chopping problems.

[athomas]

Yeah revys use gravity, but under constant agitation thats still 10+ bps. Did your revy have an x-board?

I outshot the classic valve before I outshot the revy. Never had any chopping problems.

Once it gets flowing at constant free fall, it can do over 12 actually. However, the start stop cycle of the bolt does not allow a free flow of balls into the breach on demand. If you fire a shot, the blowback from the first shot will bounce the next shot into the breach, but the third shot will not always fall into place fast enough to allow another rapid shot. You can't always shoot consistently fast enough to out shoot a revy, but it only takes a couple of quick shots in succession to cause a chop. This is especially a concern if the gun is not perfectly vertical for all shots.

And yes, I did have an X-board. I actually still use the revy on my retro mag when I go out with it. Less to go wrong and it is more durable than my Magna or Halo in the woods.

[Spider-TW]

Barrel plug (also missing)

If you are referring to the safety device, most fields now use barrel "socks", barrel "condoms", barrel "blocking device", etc. A nylon sleeve with elastic cord. Most fields in our area will not even let you use a barrel plug. At least they are about the same price (or cheaper).

[factoid]

If you are referring to the safety device, most fields now use barrel "socks", barrel "condoms", barrel "blocking device", etc. A nylon sleeve with elastic cord. Most fields in our area will not even let you use a barrel plug. At least they are about the same price (or cheaper).

Yeah, that's what I gathered. I went ahead and ordered one because I knew I'd need it.

What was the reason for the old style plug going away? Are they considered unsafe? I suppose a plug that completely fills the barrel has the opportunity to get blasted out from pressure, or possibly cause some unsafe blowback in the marker...but that would probably only work on a non-vented barrel.

[Spider-TW]

Yeah, that's what I gathered. I went ahead and ordered one because I knew I'd need it.

What was the reason for the old style plug going away? Are they considered unsafe? I suppose a plug that completely fills the barrel has the opportunity to get blasted out from pressure, or possibly cause some unsafe blowback in the marker...but that would probably only work on a non-vented barrel.

Besides becoming a projectile, they only work for one shot. If a barrel sock is tied on well, it will take several shots to come off. I learned this (tight socks) the hard way as I had trouble with the buttons on an old matrix. After a game and leaving the field, we had been cornering some kids, their markers, and their barrel socks. While rolling my marker around in my hand, it turned on and fired twice. With the air turned off, the first one still shot the sock out of the way (wasn't tight enough) and the second shot bounced off the back of my son's head. He was all fired up, thinking it was one of the kids. It was a cheap lesson for me.

People still keep their nice aluminum barrel plugs though. Especially the "ANuS" plugs I still have a red Illustrator barrel plug.

[factoid]

Got the old girl back in business. Going to go out this weekend hopefully, just trying to figure out which field around town to head to. There's a couple, I just don't know which ones the rec players hang out at versus the really competitive players. I don't want to go out for the first time in a few years just to get schooled by pros.


Here are a couple pics I snapped. Sorry they suck, my camera phone is lousy.




The bottle isn't screwed in, I just pushed it into the ASA a bit, but you get the idea.

I also picked up my scuba tank from the dive shop today, so I was able to gas it up and get it pressurized again.

I went through and replaced EVERY O-Ring in the marker with the exception of the powertube tip o-ring which I dont' think comes in the tip because it has nothing to do with sealing air, it just holds the tip onto the tube tightly.

I had forgotten how much of a pain fresh on/off o-rings are. The Teflon O-Ring never wants to sit inside the bigger one. I could force it in by mashing the on-off valve in, but it would keep popping out. Once I gassed up the gun once it sealed up and stayed put.

The one thing that concerns me about the setup right now is that I screwed in my Guerilla Myth tank, pulled the trigger a couple times to check for leaks and stuff and everything was good, but then I screwed it off and I could hear it leaking from the tank pin area. Very soft, very slow. I could put my finger over it and stop it.

I screwed the bottle in one more time, gassed the gun up, pulled the trigger a couple times and then unscrewed it again. No leak that time. I guess it's possible this tank's pin is just a little sticky? Is that something to be concerned about? It doesn't bother me too much since it won't leak when it's screwed into the marker. I'm hoping that the pin will work itself out after a few times on and off.


Next up for this mag:

Macro Lines to replace the old microlines

Probably a gas-thru foregrip to replace the expansion chamber. The only reason I used that is because my old HPA regulator screwed into the vertical ASA with a braided hose and I don't have any microline long enough to go straight from the bottom-bottle adapter into the AIR valve and keep away from my hands, so I used this as a stop-gap measure. I'll be watching it closely to see if it contributes to any shootdown problems

Level 10 upgrade

Intelliframe

ULE mainbody

X-Valve...at which point I'll basically have an entire second mag if I buy another rail.

Some kind of eframe.

[factoid]

Here's the "before" picture with the old tank on it.



I liked that tank a lot. It was adjustable output up to 1200 PSI, but it's already 12 years old and for basically the same price as the hydro test I could buy a new one that has a shelf life of 20+ years.

I know I'll upgrade to a carbon-wrapped 4500 eventually, but the steel one will do fine for a while.

Thanks so much for your help everyone! The AO forum is fantastic.

[SockMonkey]

you should be able to take that tank to your scuba shop and have them put that reg on any tank you want (EDIT: if thats a 3k reg, then they should only put it on a 3k tank). My local shop does it for like 4 bucks.. even did it for free on 2 tanks when i had them hydro the tanks.