AutoMag NOOB

[biggy238]

I picked up a Mag for little-to-nothing and have been trying to absorb as much as I can. I would like to know where I can find the answer to Why a ULT is a bad idea for a 68Automag valve. If you can answer or drop me a link, I'll gladly read away.

I'm very curious about this as i'm interested in attempting a spydermag rocker frame setup.

Go easy on me please. Cool site.

Kyle

[biggy238]

Spydermag.

Well, I got my VS2 frame modded and on the marker. In everything that i've read that isn't to old to have pictures, the sear is an RT pro. The distance between the pivot point on the AM/MM rail is VERY close to the fulcrum point at the end of the spyder sear. The mods/ pictures in the threads (and i've been through quite a few now) with the welded sear wouldn;t work on this setup, simply for the fact that the drop on the sear would be too far forward to interact with the spyder sear.

I centered the frame off the rear bolt hole and drilled the new hole in the trigger gaurd. IT's where it should be as far as i can tell. The marker will fire but has to have nearly 1/8th in of space between the spyder frame and the mag's rail. I'm trying to visualize why this is, but i'm just not familiar with the mag to understand what to correct. I'm working on getting a ULT. When i first fire the spyder trigger, it takes about 10 strikes to produce 5 shots. After it cycles a few times, the marker fires every time the solenoid hits. I'm not sure what it causing this either. I will get pics up of my sear when i get a chance. I'm very curious if the initial binding is due to the sear turning off axis.

Any ideas are welcome. this thing is nearly functional. I just need to get the fitment down (i may have to permantently shim it) Once I get it up and running I'm going to throw in a board and trigger. I need a source for Eye Covers that I can use with this rail.

Any ideas are welcome. I'm gonna try and get some pics up in the next day or two.
Kyle

[athomas]

I picked up a Mag for little-to-nothing and have been trying to absorb as much as I can. I would like to know where I can find the answer to Why a ULT is a bad idea for a 68Automag valve. If you can answer or drop me a link, I'll gladly read away.

The 68Automag valve uses regulated air through the air passage at the top of the on-off pin. the lower pressure of the regulated air does not have enough force to overcome the sear mass and the frictions associated with the trigger assembly. You can get them working, but everything needs to be tune to perfection and fitting just right.

[Flatliner333]

The marker will fire but has to have nearly 1/8th in of space between the spyder frame and the mag's rail. I'm trying to visualize why this is


looks like there is about an 1/8" rise in the frame where the spyder sear is. You need to modify the spyder frame so that the Mag sear has enough up and down room to function properly.I modified mine so the Spyder noid worked directly with the Mag sear, by cutting out the spyder sear , flipping the noid around and welding the arm further back on the Mag sear.I also used a ULT with a "Classic" valve and it worked fine.If you go with an upgrade board the Classic valve will not keep up with the rapid speed of the board due to the recharge rate of the valve.If you want high ROF you need an RT type valve like an X Valve.

[athomas]

The classic valve will do over 16bps without shoot-down. That's more than adequate for most uses.

The spyder solenoid, or any solenoid for that matter, has maximum pull force when fully engaged. It needs maximum force possible when engaging the sear so it is important that you position your soleoind so that its final resting place is just past the point where the mag fires. When the solenoid is fully forward, this may show up as a large gap between the solenoid and the sear arm. You may have to modify the frame to accomodate the movement of the sear. You will probably have to modify the sear as well.

[biggy238]

reverse noid

flatliner would you care to post a picture of the sear you built? to me this is the best route for direct actuation.

getting the armature fully into the field with this setup would require adding a gap between the two sears. this may be what i'm accomplishing by adding the space between the frames.
im moving into a house this week. when i get in, i think for my first project i'm going for a reverse noid. the structure is just too much more durable to ignore. just need time with a good drill press.

i put the stock trigger frame on tonight to check that the seal kit i put in is functional. it seemed o.k. once i got the adjuster screw run back in a bit. I'm flirting with disaster by modding as i learn the marker. It's harder to tell what i'm doing right and wrong.

I'm thinking a reverse noid sear would be easy to build. just drill the frame and flip the noid, build a blank sear and get the fitment to the noid right, and then cut the profile in the top for the on/off and bolt.

Thanks for the feedback. I thought it was a little cold in here at first.
Kyle

[hill160881]

Now you know why I stick with the 20 minute mod, known as the ETEK/EGO Mag or EP mag. These EM mags take to much tinkering and tuning for me. They are battery hogs as well.

[biggy238]

Now you know why I stick with the 20 minute mod, known as the ETEK/EGO Mag or EP mag. These EM mags take to much tinkering and tuning for me. They are battery hogs as well.

Oh I will be building one of those too, and probably buying an SMC valve to run it from this board. I want to see this mod out first. The threads on the dual sear mod are misleading. I'm certain if you are starting with an RT sear and rail, there isn't much too it.
This AM/MM rail with a VS2 frame is a challenge. Still working on picks.

[Flatliner333]

Unfortunatly building a sear from scratch did not work for me in the long run. I could not find a way to get the hardness of the one I built to come close to the hardness of an AGD sear. They would work for a little while but would wear out. I ended up cutting the arm off the stock sear and welding it further back.I will look and see if I can find a pic of one to show you. I actually moved the rail forward and have my noid mounted verticle now pushing up directly on the bottom of the back of the sear.

[Flatliner333]

Hill your just jealous cause my gun shoots slower than yours

[biggy238]

Hill your just jealous cause my gun shoots slower than yours

I'm jealous that someone has a working spydermag. I have to devote my efforts to moving into my new house but after that I will be back online for modding this frame.

As for the heat treating, I can pull that off. Being a CAT trained tech has it's perks. Punching the frame out doesn't appear to be a difficult feat, but getting the relationship between the sear and 90* fulcrum for the solenoid to tap on is what has me worried, and why I would like a picture.

I got my CP barrel kit today. It has me wanting to tinker.

[hill160881]

Hill your just jealous cause my gun shoots slower than yours

[hill160881]

I'm jealous that someone has a working spydermag. I have to devote my efforts to moving into my new house but after that I will be back online for modding this frame.

As for the heat treating, I can pull that off. Being a CAT trained tech has it's perks. Punching the frame out doesn't appear to be a difficult feat, but getting the relationship between the sear and 90* fulcrum for the solenoid to tap on is what has me worried, and why I would like a picture.

I got my CP barrel kit today. It has me wanting to tinker.

I dont think it is heat treated. I believe it has a carbide surface on it, But dont quote me on that..

[Flatliner333]

Check your in box

[hill160881]

How far do you need to move the sear arm back?

A emag arm is a 1/4" further back than an rt or standard sear arm.

The one on top is a E-mag sear with the front leg cut off, the bottom one is a rt/standard sear.