You have a powertube issue. The powertube spacer is too long, or the powertube oring is damaged. Changing to a shorter powertube spacer should fix your problem.
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Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts. -
i figured it was a powertube problem, but why would it suddenly become an issue? It has been working just fine. I have been thinking about it, and i have a feeling that the sear isnt releasing the bolt before triggering the on/off to let more air into the chamber, forcing the air already in the chamber that should have been released during the previous cyle to go out down the barrel and blow the oring. Im worried once i repleace the PT oring it will just blow again if i dont fix the sear issue. anyone else with hyperframe have an issue with the frame shortstroking the sear?Comment
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These frames have 2 tuning issues
1) The battery doesn't have the power to move the pin on retro valves
2) Spacing issues ie pin length
In short the ult fixes both these problems
I have one of these frames and I could not get it to work right with a retro valve without a ult.
The 9volt battery doesn't have the amps to move that kind of force even with the 6800 cap. I'm pretty sure I have one of the pins that came with the frame, I'm looking at it now, it looks like it"s trying to work like a ult (reduces trigger pull force).
Even when these were new they didn't work the best. Center flag wanted people to send their mags to them so they could tune them.
When I set the pin length with the ult I manually move the solenoid plunger.
1) It should release the bolt at the very end of the cycle (plunger hits the back of the noid). If it doesn't, it will tear up the bolt really badly. If there are shims on the noid remove them. You want as long of a sear movement as possible.
2) You want the on/off pin to shut down the air just before it releases the bolt. To test this, push the plunger in and hold it in. When the gun fires there should be no hissing. You have to do this manually, it is too fast of a cycle to hear the hiss. This is where I did the most tuning. If the valve shuts off too early in the cycle you will have shoot down. If it shuts off too late, you'll get leaks, bolt won't reset, lose efficiency etc.
If your sear has too much side to side wobble, the solenoid pin might not push the sear properly. I cheated and welded a round face on mine to give the solenoid pin more area to strike. The rt pro sears help with wobble because of the bushing. I again cheated and used dual bb pressed together with set screws so I have no wobble at all.
As far as the power tube leaking when it didn't before, if the sear release point is wrong it can rub the power tube oring funny and make it leak. I'd suggest use the old frame, fix the leak, then go back to the frame tuning.
A level 10 does help (less force on the sear) but I use a level 7 and a level 10 and they both work. I'd suggest tune the frame, then get the level 10 as it needs tuning and it is harder to tune both at once.
I hope this helps, my frame shoots very well so it is possible but they do take some work. I can add pics if it will help. I really think you need a ult in order for your frame to make you happy. The retro valve just has too much force to work well (that's why emags use an 18v heavy duty solenoid).
I noticed you said you changed sears, check the part that pushes the on/off pin. I got one used and someone ground .5 mm off and it really messed up my gun.
Originally posted by joshua.soperComment
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Yea, that all really helps. I will try to tune the solenoid tomorrow when i can get more air. I tried the setup today with my friends Xvalve and it worked flawlessly. I also put my retrovalve into his setup and it did not leak. So its just the mix of the retro and hyperframe. From what i have read i would need to do some major changes to the valve to make a ULT work, so i guess ill just have to look into an xvalve with ULT if i want this to happen for real.Comment
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You must have one of the early retro valves that use a single on-off top oring. You can't use a ULT in these valves without machining out the on-off hole.Originally posted by joshua.soper
The change in operation from a leak to no leak in the powertube is usually due to different positioning of the valve in the body/rail. If the spacer is causing the oring to barely seal and the valve position changes even a tiny bit, it can cause the leak. It just means you need the shorter spacer to guarantee that it won't leak for all situations.
The solenoids have the most power when the plunger is pulled all the way in. Tune your frame setup/solenoid so that the sear just releases the bolt when the solenoid is pulled all the way in. Any sear movement past what is needed means the sear is being engaged too soon where the solenoid is not as strong. This can cause power issues where the solenoid may not be strong enough to activate the gun in all instances.Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.Comment
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I may have missed this in all the posts but another likely problem is the ule body on a am rail. Is the body sitting flat in the rail or is it hitting on the bolt post causing it to not sit flat.Comment
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i removed everything from the rail so that it sits flat. I also have run the whole setup with a friends xvalve and it worked perfectly. Looks like i will need one to work this hyper frame :/Comment
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Does your retro valve use two orings above the top or one oring?
So, the hyperframe setup works with the X-valve? If that is so, then all you need is a powertube tuning (shorter spacer) and an on-off adjustment. You can put shims between the two halves of your on-off to simulate a shorter pin.Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.Comment
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the retrovalve has a one oring on/off valve. With a lvl 10 kit would i get the on/off shims and PT spacers i need to fix this?Comment
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Yea, the ULT is definately out for this valve without a machining upgrade.Originally posted by joshua.soper
The level 10 kit doesn't need the spacers. It uses a different method of sealing. The small end of the level 10 bolt stem actually fits through the center of a carrier oring and seals on the inside edge, but the level 7 bolt stem seals against the front edge of the powertube oring. For the level 10 system, the fit of the oring is critical which is why there are several different carrier sizes included. By using different carrier sizes, the inner diameter of the oring can be adjusted to fit the bolt stem and provide enough tension to seal the air without providing too much friction to interfere with the bolt movement.
The level 10 powertube spacers, which shouldn't ever be used in the powertube unless there is a major tolerance issue, can be used to shim the retro on-off. The shims are included with the level 10 kit. The level 10 spacers are 0.01" thick. The ULT shims are only 0.005" thick so they provide more adjustability.
If all you need is the powertube spacer, then you can shorten the one you have. Rub one end along a piece of sand paper that is held against a flat surface. Take off as much metal as you need to shorten it to the proper length. Sand and try continually to check your progress. If you make it too short, you can always add more length by adding a level 10 or ULT shim.Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.Comment
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UPDATE:
I adjusted the solenoid in the hyperframe like Tankz suggested and now the valve cycles properly when aired up and shot, however i still have a bad leak down the barrel. I ordered a powertube spacer kit from AGD and it should be here in about a week. Ill update yall when i get it. Thanks everyone for the help and i will still gladly take any and all the input you guys can give me to make this gun puuurrrrrrr. :)Comment
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UPDATE. Got the powertube spacer kit, and put the smallest spacer, the 215 spacer in it, and it still leaks, it cycles slightly better. I guess im going to try and sand down the smallest spacer to be a bit smaller and see if it works....if not its looking like im gonna have to dish it out for an xvalve....Comment
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Did you try swapping out your sears ... do you have the rail bushing installed ?Comment
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i tried several sears, and i tried the sear in a non-hyperframe setup. Worked perfectly without hyperframe, alll sears did not work with hyperframe. i do not have rail bushings. But i used my hyperframe setup with an xvalve and it worked perfectly.Comment
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You need a rail bushing. Without it, its just luck if you get the valve located at the proper space to prevent constant leaking out the front. You will definitely get random firing issues without a rail bushing in place.Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.Comment
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