EMAG still has pressure after removing air line - RESOLVED

[Nobody]

now everyone copy syxxty's post and show it to your GFs and wifeys. show them that blowing "through the pin" does help clear clogs and they should always try to do it when the pressure isn't leaving after degassing your mag

i'm sure a mod might edit this, but its worth a shot!

[syxxty]

The clog may have been from the blue paintballs

[BTAutoMag]

or lack of use with improper or no lube

[syxxty]

Well the issue re-occurred this past weekend. This time the reg pin was clear. I think it is my setup or air down procedure:

setup:
classic mag with expansion chamber, emag valve, and remote air line with shut off valve. If I must use CO2 I just switch out the emag valve for my classic (reason for expansion tank). Both valves have lvl 10 installed.

Air down procedure:
1. close remote air line valve
2. shoot till the pressure in the gun is not enough to overcome the bolt spring force
3. disconnect remote airline (sill has some residual pressure in expansion chamber and line on the gun)

The pressure in the on/off assembly stays in the gun. If I skip step 2 and just remove air I can shoot once and all pressure is release from the gun. Is this expected or shoud the residual pressure in the on/off assembly bleed back through the regulator? Thanks.

[nak81783]

Do you have a way to run air to the valve without the remote line and expansion chamber (e.g. A duckbill ASA with air line directly to valve)? It doesn't matter if you can't hook the duckbill up to the bottom of the grip frame. You just want to isolate variables.

Does the Classic valve have the same issue?

To answer your question, all pressure should bleed back through the valve when the source is removed.

-Nathan

[syxxty]

Yea.. I can connect my remote directly to the valve due to the quick connects I have installed (just by passes the expansion chamber). I don't really have any other ASA and my bottom line isn't long enough to connect to the valve. I'll try this tonight.

No, classic valve and my minimag does not have this issue.

Thank for the direct answer. I wonder if there is a minimum pressure that is require to vent out (to overcome sticktion?) but that doesn't make sense the more I think about it. I just can't seem to figure out what part of the reg assembly or on/off is screwed up. You would think any oring problems would lead to a LEAK.

Thanks for the help.

[nak81783]

I want to make sure I understand. Do you have two complete setups?

1. Classic Mag body, E-mag valve, expansion chamber, remote line
2. Minimag body, Classic valve, and what airflow path?

If so, does the Classic valve have the same issue in the Classic body, expansion chamber, and remote line, and does the E-mag valve have the same issue in the Minimag body? This will let you know if it is valve related.

Still perform the test with remote directly to valve. Post results on that too.

And if you can post pictures of your setup(s), that would be helpful.

-Nathan

[syxxty]

I keep forgetting to take pics.

Yes. Everything I have described has been my classic Mag with switching the classic valve to emag valve. The classic valve on the same setup vents pressure correctly.

I have a completely separate minimag with the same setup (stock minimag valve with stock bolt setup, expansion chamber and remote line with shutoff). I tried putting the emag valve on the minimag but my air lines are a little different and it didn't link up so I never tried. I will make it work tonight and report back.

Steps for me tonight:
1. Air directly to emag valve on classic setup (remove expansion chamber and remote from picture)
2. Try emag valve on minimag setup
3. TAKE PICTURES

[nak81783]

To maximize your tinkering tonight, please also do the following:

1. Confirm the credit card thickness gap between back of trigger and trigger rod when pressurized. We spoke of this early on, but I do not see confirmation this was inspected.

2. In addition to setup pictures, please take a clear up close picture of the reg pin assembly from the E-Mag valve.

3. Try degassing with the trigger held back after your last shot until you remove the air source. I realize you'll be venting more pressure, since you won't be shooting the line dry after turning off the remote line. Report if this makes any difference.

Since your Classic valve vents properly, that makes me think it is the E-Mag valve. However, your statement

"3. disconnect remote airline (sill has some residual pressure in expansion chamber and line on the gun)"

still makes me think its something else in your setup.

Hang in there. We'll figure it out.


-Nathan

[syxxty]

Roger

[syxxty]

OK... Got some testing done. Did not have time to try everything.

1. Air directly to emag valve on classic setup (remove expansion chamber and remote from picture)
Tested with same result (Pressure remained in gun)
2. Try emag valve on minimag setup
Did not test yet
3. Confirm the credit card thickness gap between back of trigger and trigger rod when pressurized. We spoke of this early on, but I do not see confirmation this was inspected.
Pulling the trigger back with safety ON had zero gap between trigger and pin (but gun does not fire). If I push the trigger all the way forward and take the play out there is about a credit card thickness gap. This is with the new 0.750 pin installed.
4. In addition to setup pictures, please take a clear up close picture of the reg pin assembly from the E-Mag valve.
See below. The middle oring on the pin appears smaller in diameter. It also has a small crack (see last picture) but I don't see how that could effect my problem. Also the orange oring is a little spongy.
5. Try degassing with the trigger held back after your last shot until you remove the air source. I realize you'll be venting more pressure, since you won't be shooting the line dry after turning off the remote line. Report if this makes any difference.
I forgot to test this. Will do tonight. Have a question though. Should I dry fire until it does not shoot and then hold the trigger or shoot once and hold the trigger?
6. TAKE PICTURES

Setup:
AO setup.jpg

Pressure Regulator Assembly
AO press regulator.jpg

Regulator Spring 1
AO reg spring 1.jpg

Regulator Spring 2
AO reg spring 2.jpg

[nak81783]

3. This should be fine. I assume if you point the pressurized marker at the floor to let the trigger flop forward, the credit card thick was gap is present, correct?

4. Middle "o-ring" is actually a single turn split washer. It's supposed to have the "crack" in it.

REPLACE THE ORANGE O-RING AND RETEST! I do not recognize that. It should be a urethane oring as I described previously. You should have one in your Classic kit, as I think it's the same size as something used in there. Your "spongy" description scares me, as the bleed must pass by this o-ring. If it's jammed, deformed, or otherwise not functioning properly, it could be the culprit.

5. Hold back trigger while still fully pressurized, then degas. Do not shoot the line dry.

Finally, when you said, "3. disconnect remote airline (sill has some residual pressure in expansion chamber and line on the gun)", did you mean the residual pressure stays or bleeds? If this pressure bleeds, but there's still some stuck in the valve, it's certainly the valve. I thought you meant it stays trapped in the expansion chamber and line.

My money is on that orange o-ring. Good luck!


-Nathan

[syxxty]

3. Yep. flopping forward gives credit card gap

4. Whew. I'll replace orange first thing.

5. Ok.. I do know that if I do not shoot the line dry and leave a full charge in the gun and then remove the air line, I can shoot the last remaining shot and no pressure remains in the gun. I am going to guess that holding the trigger down will allow all pressure to bleed out of the gun as well.

Finally.... the pressure bleeds out of lines and expansion chamber but some stuck in the valve. Think we have it narrowed to the valve. Hopefully my orange oring is the problem.

[syxxty]

Could not find urethane oring from classic repair kit. I tried a Buena-N oring from an oring kit I have and air just streamed out of the gun between the rail and the valve. Any one know of a good oring kit that will work with automags? I couldn't find a generic urethane oring kit on amazon. Otherwise I'll have to order an RT kit and post back.

FYI holding the trigger and then removing all air works. No residual pressure in valve.

Thanks for all the help.

[nak81783]

Isn't that oring the same size as the Level 10 bolt stem oring? You should have an extra in your level 10 kit. If not, put the Buna in the bolt stem location, and the urethane in the reg seat location just for a test until you can get more parts.

The Buna is said to work in the bolt stem location, but you may need to change carrier size. Also the Buna might not last as long there.


-Nathan