Level 10 Carrier/O Ring issue

[Stealthpanda]

This mag looks old. Serial number cf21214. Non-powerfeed, the two holes on the back of the rail where they used to mount a dovetail on the back near the valve old. The sear is visbily worn, but it didn't look like it lost any of its edge on the catch part. And what is the sear bushing? The sear pin has always seated in its groove when I installed it. I will order a new sear to be safe. With everything I have ordered, I am a rail, and valve away from a new mag entirely heh. Ill know more when I get to fill my tank. Thanks again.

[athomas]

This mag looks old. Serial number cf21214.

That is 1993 vintage. I thought the sear looked old by the shape of the cut. The newer ones don't have as much metal below where the sear contacts the bolt so they have less mass which is good.

The sear is visbily worn, but it didn't look like it lost any of its edge on the catch part.

If its visibly worn, that's usually a good time to replace. Keep the old one for a spare in case anything happens in the future.

And what is the sear bushing? The sear pin has always seated in its groove when I installed it.

Its a rail bushing. It is a bushing that fits in the rail where the rear field strip screw goes into the valve. It properly spaces the valve on the rail with respect to the body. If it is missing, the valve will move around and will sit too far back when aired up and cause leaking out the front of the powertube.

[Stealthpanda]

1993. Thats crazy. Im going to order a new sear, in the mean time I am going to try and get it working without. Still waiting on air Silly holidays. I can certainly live with a silly leak if I hold the trigger in, but since I removed everything, and my mag is in parts, I have to start from scratch. Id rather learn it now, when I don't have a game any time soon, than have to learn it when I get my X valve in the near future :3
Sincerely irritated by my mag, but they are still awesome.
Thanks,
Jason

EDIT: I'd love to find a place in/near south Jersey that knows anything about an Automag. I have a field up north, that has someone who played with Tom Kaye back in 1991 apparently... blew my mind, but he said he could help me. But thats about an hour and a half drive. My local shop doesn't know jack about mags. A shame really.

[athomas]

Its easy to learn about mags. Just look at the diagrams and air passages, and you can figure out how they work.

[Stealthpanda]

Gun fires, resets, slight leak if you hold the trigger in. 1 Carrier, no shims. Bolt always recocks on an obstruction. Winning. I have noticed that the gun wont chrono over 250 +/- 5. Any time you turn up the velocity, it begins to vent out the back. Stock Gold spring with the lvl 10 kit. I still call this progress. Thanks AO!

EDIT:
Ok, let me take a moment to explain what I did, as maybe this thread may help anyone in the future:
I replaced every single o-ring inside of this gun. Reg seat, all o-rings inside or attached to the on/off, new sear as well. Generously lubed up every said o-ring that was replaced as well. 4-6 drops inside of my asa, dry fired maybe 30-50 times after I finally got the gun to fire/reset/reset after an obstruction. VERY slight leak when you hold the trigger, ill live with that for now. Unfortunately now, I either have a bad/old regulator piston assembly, or I just chrono'd the gun and it just wont chrono over 255ish with the gold spring they provide you. So its either I change to the red spring, and see if this will let me hit 275-280 w/o leaking out the back, or I replace the regulator piston assembly. (already ordered ) Automag overhaul, plus the many tips and advice I have found from athomas(and the rest of AO) and warpigs response/thread, have me with a very functional gun at the moment. (Minus the slightly lower than prefered velocity)

Thanks again,
Jason

[athomas]

Its not that the gun will chrono higher with the red bolt spring than the gold one, its that the red bolt spring will not allow the gun to chrono at lower velocities like the gold one. The red bolt spring will make the pressure requirements higher than the gold spring. Your problem of venting out the back will get worst with the red spring.

Replace your regulator piston assembly. Your gun is older. I suspect is still has the old original low pressure regulator piston assembly which is worn and weak plus the level 10 sometimes operates at a higher pressure than the original level 7 mags were set to vent at.

[Stealthpanda]

If it truely is from 1993 like the valve serial number may indicate, and from the looks of it, nothing internally was upgraded... than that may be the case. I ordered a new reg piston assemb. just recently, ill get it chrono'd when I install it/head to my local shop. If the sear discoloration was any indication to its age, AND my reg piston was just as discolored, I may have found the culprit.

So what your saying is the only thing the spring has to do with it, its velocity range, and how harsh the bolt is on paint? For example: gold chronos from 210-260 and may be harder on paint due to less tension from the bolt, and the red spring may chrono from 240-300 and is easier on paint due to more tension from a longer spring? The numbers are pretty non-specific, so it might not be as huge of a gap as I make it sound. This coupled with a new high pressure reg piston assembly, makes me understand more. Did I botch this idea/theory?
Thanks,
Jason

[athomas]

So what your saying is the only thing the spring has to do with it, its velocity range, and how harsh the bolt is on paint? For example: gold chronos from 210-260 and may be harder on paint due to less tension from the bolt, and the red spring may chrono from 240-300 and is easier on paint due to more tension from a longer spring? The numbers are pretty non-specific, so it might not be as huge of a gap as I make it sound. This coupled with a new high pressure reg piston assembly, makes me understand more. Did I botch this idea/theory?
Thanks,
Jason

You have the just of it.

The gold spring will chrono at the lowest velcocity because it requires less force/pressure to push it forward. For that very reason, it also allows it to chrono at the highest velocity. The lighter force allows the bolt to stay forward easier and release air at a greater rate at higher internal pressures which increases the maximum velocity compared to the red spring.

The red spring is stiffer so the force/pressure must be higher to push the bolt forward, thus the lowest velocity is also a higher value just to move the bolt. The red spring with its greater return force also acts like a stopper at the end of the powertube restricting the air flow to a greater degree than the gold spring which has the effect of reducing the velocity which affects the maximum attainable value causing it to be lower than with the gold spring.

An added restriction on a level 10 is the smaller hole at the carrier oring that the air must pass through. This restricts air flow which requires a bit more pressure to compensate for the loss of flow and makes the level 10 more inefficient, even with the same gold spring as with the level 7. This is the main reason the overall pressure is higher in the chamber just to operate at the same velocity as a level 7 bolt. The level 10 operating pressure often exceeds the vent pressure setting of the original regulator piston assembly.

[Stealthpanda]

I had to read it a few times to grasp it, but it actually makes sense. Not your fault - im just tired. xD I just feel, at that point, the only reason to use the red vs gold spring is pressure exerted on the ball. Sound about right? I can't wait to learn about the X-valve. I feel like I have this level 10/classic valve stuff under wraps. Feels kind of nice.
Thanks again,
Jason

[athomas]

...the only reason to use the red vs gold spring is pressure exerted on the ball. Sound about right?

You got it.