The leaky level 10/on/off assembly valve thread of death

[OPBN]

If you have been only putting oil in the hole in the bottom, that could very well be your issue as well. I would suggest trying putting several drops of oil into the asa, air up and fire off a dozen or so times as AThomas suggested. In order to overoil it, you have to put a LOT of oil in it.

[Justus]

Yeah, I agree with OPBN. I don't think you can really overdo it with oil. If you think you put in more than necessary, then just take the barrel off and dry-fire a few dozen times (until you stop seeing a cloud of oily mist). You may want to take off the valve at that point and wipe the exterior of everything down to remove the residue, but the valve internals should stay well lubed.

[Stealthpanda]

Gold cup oil is fine. The holes don't do anything. To get oil into the valve, you need to either wet the orings directly as you install them, or you need to put a couple of drops of oil at the valve inlet or ASA. Then you need to cycle the valve to blow the oil through it.

When I thought I fixed it the first time, about 2 weeks ago, I put between 4-6 drops in my asa, and dry fired about 30-40 times. When it started to leak again, I replaced the regulator piston, sear, all on/off orings replaced as well. Slight leak down the barrel at rest, so I switched carrier o rings. Grabbed the one that was giving me slight issues from before, I can switch back, or just start the install process again. My HPA tank is empty, so I can't test anything at the moment - so naturally i'm irritated.

It is a powertube oring. The one I mentioned that it shouldn't be is the powertube tip oring. They are two different orings, the tip oring being slightly larger than the powertube oring.

Yeah, I checked. I was hoping I wasn't crazy.

No. The old one works fine. Its just easier to use the newer one because you can't accidentally put it in upside down.

Still purchased the newer one, >_> because why not have more spare mag parts laying around lol.

When you pull the trigger slightly, the tip of the sear pushes the bolt back slightly as it rotates down. This pushes the bolt stem vent hole farther back in the powertube carrier past the sealing edge of the oring. This indicates that the bolt is sitting too far forward. Since you have a new sear and have your rail bushing installed, I don't know what the issue is. One thing that you might try is to take out your carrier and remove theoring. Get some 600 grit sand paper. Put the sandpaper on a flat surface facing up. Rub the front of the carrier on the sandpaper against the flat surface and take a couple of thousandths of metal off. Reinstall it. This should allow the carrier to sit farther forward and seal the bolt stem vent hole while at rest. If you don't want to do that to your carrier, you can do the same thing to your powertube tip instead only sand the back or it.

I honestly don't want to sand anything down, whether it be the pt tip, or the carrier I should be using. This just doesn't sound like normal operating procedures, and honestly scares me. I had it where I wanted it, but over time the gun developed a leak. Maybe after a full tank or dry firing? 72ci/3000psi. I wasn't bothered by the leak when I hold the trigger in, because that in itself is not normal operation. The amount of air loss in a fraction of a fraction of a second between shots ISN'T going to affect the overall efficiency of the mag. Maybe lose 5-10 shots from my tank? But what will is leaking at rest. I did NOT have this issue roughly a week ago. Something broke in, and as mentioned above by a post, the older the o ring the better. Fresh o rings chaffing my bum? Maybe so. Removing the carrier with my tool maybe nicked the o ring?

Derpy hooves

[Patron God of Pirates]

If you have one, install a level 7 bolt and PT tip. If the leak down the barrel goes away (and I suspect it will) then your first leak is being caused by the carrier o-ring having worn in, go down 1/2 a carrier size. I don't know about the "older is better" school of o-ring thought, that has not been my experience.

I suspect your second leak is on/off related. That bottom o-ring looks like it's just floating there. Thinking you need a thicker one there.

[Stealthpanda]

Will the inside of the level 7 bolt slide into the pt with the carrier in place? It definately looks larger than the carrier tbh. Oh, and I don't have a spacer kit, if thats the case. I have the spring instead. Lucky me.

The bottom o ring does look weird, but a few people have mentioned it is the right o ring. Shrug.

[athomas]

Low air pressure can cause leaking out the front. The chamber needs a full charge of air to push the carrier and oring forward on the bolt stem. If the carrier and oring combination worked before but not now, then something has changed. Usually a broken in carrier oring will have a consistent leak, not one that moves with the sealing edge. It could very well be that your carrier oring got nicked. Have you tried another oring and retuned so that you are using the correct carrier for the new oring?

The slight leak for a couple of seconds when you hold the trigger in won't affect your efficiency at all. The time and amount of pressure leaked during normal firing is almost nothing.

[Stealthpanda]

Low air pressure can cause leaking out the front. The chamber needs a full charge of air to push the carrier and oring forward on the bolt stem. If the carrier and oring combination worked before but not now, then something has changed. Usually a broken in carrier oring will have a consistent leak, not one that moves with the sealing edge. It could very well be that your carrier oring got nicked. Have you tried another oring and retuned so that you are using the correct carrier for the new oring?
That really sounds like what happened, heck, it happened last time I ran dry troubleshooting issues. I switched o-rings when the consistant leak happened, and I am really under the impression I grabbed the "carrier 1 won't fit, and neither will 1.5" o ring. Its just how the o ring behaved. Again, I have never attempted to add shims, or remove shims for that matter, from my classic valve w/ level 10. No shims for life, elsewise I will have more leaks, thus confusing me more

The slight leak for a couple of seconds when you hold the trigger in won't affect your efficiency at all. The time and amount of pressure leaked during normal firing is almost nothing. This. I am lead to believe that it is NOT normal, however, like you mentioned: This has near NO effect on air efficiency at all.

Wait a minute... when the gun gasses up, the carrier moves from sitting against the backing washer inside of the powertube, to against the powertube tip? This is new to me. Sounds about right though, as it clearly looks like there is more space than needed, or its needed by design.

[need4reebs]

has the power tube welding been cut to try and unscrew the power tube from the valve? it looks like it has or at least maybe someone tried to cut it? maybe that o-ring was damaged and thats where this mystery leak is coming from?

[Stealthpanda]

Oh hell, uhh.... I do notice what your talking about. It doesn't appear to come apart? But it does look weird. :O IDK, I didn't have that leak with the level 7 bolt, so going back to that will show me if its on/off related, or level 10 related. I'm willing to bet its the later, but I'm definately up for seeing if my paranoia about all those changed o rings on the on/off are making it act funky or not.

[Stealthpanda]

Meh, I don't get it. I get the tank filled today and the gun doesn't do ANY of the things that the gun was doing last week. I am under the impression anything under a certain input PSI and the gun does 14 million different things:
1) Leaking down the barrel. If I interpreted what Athomas said correctly: the carrier isn't pushing against back of the power tube with anything BUT a full dump chamber.
2) I couldn't fire more than a few bps, or it wouldn't cycle fully. Hello, not enough air. Hurrrr -1 for me for the day.
3) The leak at rest fully goes away under full dump chamber pressure. I did notice after a few strings/dry fires, that the leak at rest comes back. I slightly depress the trigger, and it goes away.
4) I was under the impression my carrier/o ring combo was too tight, but the lack of pressure explained a lot more.

The end result is: Anything under 800 psi (?) and the gun will make you think it has more problems than it really does. Don't know why this had to happen twice, cause me to freak out, get my tank filled, and have very little issues since then. >_<
Thanks,
Jason

[need4reebs]

yeah pretty much man! wen tuning or testing a Mag its best to use a full tank as well as keep an eye on how air ya got left.

[athomas]

Meh, I don't get it. I get the tank filled today and the gun doesn't do ANY of the things that the gun was doing last week. I am under the impression anything under a certain input PSI and the gun does 14 million different things:
1) Leaking down the barrel. If I interpreted what Athomas said correctly: the carrier isn't pushing against back of the power tube with anything BUT a full dump chamber.

It will push against the back of the powertube with less pressure, but the friction effect of the oring on the bolt stem has a greater effect at lower pressures so the carrier may not move forward far enough to create a sealing edge in front of the vent hole. This causes a leak condition while at rest.

2) I couldn't fire more than a few bps, or it wouldn't cycle fully. Hello, not enough air. Hurrrr -1 for me for the day.

Low input pressure slows the recharge rate significantly. The gun will not fire until the chamber pressure reaches a value high enough to exert a force greater than the bolt spring force.

3) The leak at rest fully goes away under full dump chamber pressure. I did notice after a few strings/dry fires, that the leak at rest comes back. I slightly depress the trigger, and it goes away.

This almost always indicates that the bolt is too far forward, meaning something is worn. A full dump chamber helps, but there is often something else that needs to be checked as well. If you slightly pull the trigger and the leak goes away you have manually pushed the bolt stem farther into the carrier. If you release the trigger, the carrier should keep sealing if its a low pressure issue. If its a dimensional issue, meaning something is worn, then the leak will return as soon as you release the trigger.

4) I was under the impression my carrier/o ring combo was too tight, but the lack of pressure explained a lot more.

The end result is: Anything under 800 psi (?) and the gun will make you think it has more problems than it really does. Don't know why this had to happen twice, cause me to freak out, get my tank filled, and have very little issues since then. >_<
Thanks,
Jason

The carrier being too tight usually shows up as a bolt stick issue while shooting and you have to manually reset the bolt. If it leaks a bit at rest, if you pull the trigger slightly, the tighter carrier and oring will move with the bolt stem and the leak often won't stop.

As mentioned, always troubleshoot using a full tank, or at least one that has significant air in it. Dry firing also uses much more air than firing balls, as does connecting and disconnecting the bottle, so you often need more air.

[Stealthpanda]

It will push against the back of the powertube with less pressure, but the friction effect of the oring on the bolt stem has a greater effect at lower pressures so the carrier may not move forward far enough to create a sealing edge in front of the vent hole. This causes a leak condition while at rest.

Low input pressure slows the recharge rate significantly. The gun will not fire until the chamber pressure reaches a value high enough to exert a force greater than the bolt spring force.

This almost always indicates that the bolt is too far forward, meaning something is worn. A full dump chamber helps, but there is often something else that needs to be checked as well. If you slightly pull the trigger and the leak goes away you have manually pushed the bolt stem farther into the carrier. If you release the trigger, the carrier should keep sealing if its a low pressure issue. If its a dimensional issue, meaning something is worn, then the leak will return as soon as you release the trigger.

The carrier being too tight usually shows up as a bolt stick issue while shooting and you have to manually reset the bolt. If it leaks a bit at rest, if you pull the trigger slightly, the tighter carrier and oring will move with the bolt stem and the leak often won't stop.

As mentioned, always troubleshoot using a full tank, or at least one that has significant air in it. Dry firing also uses much more air than firing balls, as does connecting and disconnecting the bottle, so you often need more air.

The bolt stick issue happened with low air, so as usual, my derpy self causing issues XP

What really confuses me is the bold.
The level 7 bumper? Its the one I had on it from the original purchase, not the new one I got with the parts kit. Nothing from the level 10 kit (which was purchased new) should be worn down at all with MAYBE 800-1000 dry fires through the entire level 10 bolt system.
Could it be the stock gold spring? It sticks out about 1/2" past the bolt tip when out of the gun. New sear, sear pin, even thumb screw. Could the thumb screw be too loose? Too tight?
Just at a loss, cause I have literally replaced everything on this gun, except the on/off itself/valve. So weird. Should I note how far the bolt sticks out when gassed up and how it moves/if at all when I depress the trigger? My gun also has the intelliframe, and a ule body. could something be askew inside of the ule body that is making it sit too far forward?
Thanks,
Jason

EDIT: Meh, now it did it once, and didn't do it between a mix of 5-10 shots, a shot and hold, a shot, 2 seconds, shot etc etc. This time, however, I just hand tightened the thumbs crew. With no air in the gun, there is less than 1mm of wiggle room if I push the valve against the body. It definately sounds like an over-tightened thumbscrew. This sound normal?

[need4reebs]

The bolt stick issue happened with low air, so as usual, my derpy self causing issues XP

What really confuses me is the bold.
The level 7 bumper? Its the one I had on it from the original purchase, not the new one I got with the parts kit. Nothing from the level 10 kit (which was purchased new) should be worn down at all with MAYBE 800-1000 dry fires through the entire level 10 bolt system.
Could it be the stock gold spring? It sticks out about 1/2" past the bolt tip when out of the gun. New sear, sear pin, even thumb screw. Could the thumb screw be too loose? Too tight?
Just at a loss, cause I have literally replaced everything on this gun, except the on/off itself/valve. So weird. Should I note how far the bolt sticks out when gassed up and how it moves/if at all when I depress the trigger? My gun also has the intelliframe, and a ule body. could something be askew inside of the ule body that is making it sit too far forward?
Thanks,
Jason

EDIT: Meh, now it did it once, and didn't do it between a mix of 5-10 shots, a shot and hold, a shot, 2 seconds, shot etc etc. This time, however, I just hand tightened the thumbs crew. With no air in the gun, there is less than 1mm of wiggle room if I push the valve against the body. It definately sounds like an over-tightened thumbscrew. This sound normal?

do you have a your rail bushing in place? can you get some pics of what you are saying the issue is?

[Stealthpanda]

Yes, I have my rail bushing in place. I don't actually have any issue, at the moment, other than a leak caused from the bolt tip being too close to the o ring edge sealing point (I believe) causing a leak for about 1-2 seconds if I hold my trigger in. Most of my other issues, unless something happens on the field, are being caused by automag nubbi-ness. Tank not being filled - where as on most guns, it'll cause the burping effect (spyders/tippmans, etc) but on an automag, you get 1300 different leaks. Not really, but still.

Overall, I had a leak at rest, which went away when I would pull the trigger just slightly. The carrier, or bolt, is (or was) sitting too far forward, for whatever reason, causing a slight leak at rest. Again, new sear, sear pin, brand new level 10 bolt, spring, carriers, o ring(s), rail bushing in the gun, thumbscrew just hand tightened. <-- That appears to have fixed it, as the screw being too tight can cause the bolt to sit awkward. At this point, its rinse/repeat information, and I have got to be getting on Athomas' nerves at this point I digress.