X Valve / Level 10 /ULT sillyness

[Stealthpanda]

I appreciate the info, I will have to try this tomorrow. It does indeed seem to be too tight, as when I put the bolt on, it goes on, then I have to apply very very slight force to get it to go past the carrier. I would like to do this with as little variables as possible, and get an rt on/off first.
Thanks,
Jason

[Stealthpanda]

Just going to post something I found in the ULT thread:

mountainbob84
Im using a standard Minimag AIR valve, with a 6 hole mod in the back.
850 PSI preset.
LX bolt with 2 shims & medium spring.
ULT with 4 standard shims & 2 LX shims.
I put about 1000 balls through it on the weekend and two things i noticed was; When you dry fire the marker at a rapid pace it will allways 'chuff' or short stroke. As soon as i was playing with a full hopper it did not miss a beat.
The second problem i encountered was a soon as the air system went below 850 psi it would not reacharge propely and started short stroking again. (This isnt a real problem for me as i have a 4500 psi bottle.)
As mentioned through the post you have to oil the hell out of it and the ULT does require some breaking in.
:)

I shot some paint with it today and it seemed to be a lot better. It doesn't stick as much or at all with paint. Why does it stick when I dry fire?

If this is true, why is this? That chuff/short stroke made me think the bolt was sticking?
Thanks,
Jason

[Laku]

Bolt stickiness can also be caused by too tight or loose field strip screw.

I've had this happen on my ULE body with RPG Shadow rail. The shadow rail is just loose enough in the back to allow the valve to get slightly misaligned when the field strip screw is tightened all the way. Causing the bolt to some times stick (or bolt spring to drag) in the body inside roof just enough to let the lvl 10 to kick in and do its thing.

In short, I spent some time going trough the carriers (and o-rings) until I realized what was causing the issue. In the end all that was needed was to loosen the field strip screw about 1/3-1/4 turns.

[athomas]

Just going to post something I found in the ULT thread:




If this is true, why is this? That chuff/short stroke made me think the bolt was sticking?
Thanks,
Jason

When firing with paint, there is some residual air pressure left in the chamber. When firing without paint, the chamber completely empties. An empty chamber can cause the on-off to push the sear against the bolt lip with greater force, thus slowing it down. Anytime you slow the bolt while rapid firing, you reduce the charge time to get air into the front chamber. This contributes to short stroking because you are trying to fire the gun without enough air to properly push the bolt forward. Usually it isn't noticeable, but if there are any other contributors to a slow reset, the combination causes excessive reset time. Other contributors could be a ULT with too many shims causing a bit of air to leak by as the sear rotates forward, a field strip screw too tight causing the valve/bolt to be out of alignment with the body, a carrier that is slightly too tight but not so tight that it doesn't allow a reset under normal conditions, etc.

[Stealthpanda]

Bolt stickiness can also be caused by too tight or loose field strip screw.

I've had this happen on my ULE body with RPG Shadow rail. The shadow rail is just loose enough in the back to allow the valve to get slightly misaligned when the field strip screw is tightened all the way. Causing the bolt to some times stick (or bolt spring to drag) in the body inside roof just enough to let the lvl 10 to kick in and do its thing.

In short, I spent some time going trough the carriers (and o-rings) until I realized what was causing the issue. In the end all that was needed was to loosen the field strip screw about 1/3-1/4 turns.

I have fiddled with the field screw. I would hand screw it in, then back it out 1/4-1/2 a turn, so you could see a gap between the rubber grommet on the screw, and the rail itself. I am also using a ULE body, but with a classic am/mm rail.

When firing with paint, there is some residual air pressure left in the chamber. When firing without paint, the chamber completely empties. An empty chamber can cause the on-off to push the sear against the bolt lip with greater force, thus slowing it down. Anytime you slow the bolt while rapid firing, you reduce the charge time to get air into the front chamber. This contributes to short stroking because you are trying to fire the gun without enough air to properly push the bolt forward. Usually it isn't noticeable, but if there are any other contributors to a slow reset, the combination causes excessive reset time. Other contributors could be a ULT with too many shims causing a bit of air to leak by as the sear rotates forward, a field strip screw too tight causing the valve/bolt to be out of alignment with the body, a carrier that is slightly too tight but not so tight that it doesn't allow a reset under normal conditions, etc.

I didn't know that >_< Is that X valve specific? or all automags valves? Man, for some reason that explains sooo much... smh.
Thanks, this has been a bit of bright light.
Jason

[athomas]

I have fiddled with the field screw. I would hand screw it in, then back it out 1/4-1/2 a turn, so you could see a gap between the rubber grommet on the screw, and the rail itself. I am also using a ULE body, but with a classic am/mm rail.

The valve needs to be tight on the rail. There shouldn't be a gap allowing the valve to move. Since you are using a ULE body on a AM rail, check that the pim on the bottom of the body isn't bottoming out in the grip frame screw hole in the rail. This will cause alignment issues because the body can't sit flat against the rail.

I didn't know that >_< Is that X valve specific? or all automags valves? Man, for some reason that explains sooo much... smh.
Thanks, this has been a bit of bright light.
Jason

All Automag valves work the same from a firing point of view. Its only the internal regulator that is different.

[Stealthpanda]

What do you mean by bottoming out? You mentioned this is my last thread, as everything was the same in each thread, except the valve (classic vs x valve). Each time I have screwed the trigger frame into the rail/body pretty snug.
Thanks,
Jason

[OPBN]

I've not run into it with a ULE body but some Emag bodies with the round pims sometimes bottomed out and would not allow the body to sit flat. They would rock back and forth on the pim causing binding.

[Laku]

This is the pim that we're talking about.

[Stealthpanda]

Yeah, I figured as the description explained where it is. So what is the end result? I am not noticing any movement in the body or rail at all. I am going to fire my mag(s) tomorrow with paint and see what I come up with. I was fiddling with dry firing last night, slow trigger pulls, maybe 2-3 bps, and no issues.
Thanks,
Jason

[Stealthpanda]

I got the chance to fire my mag today, and everything seems to work flawlessly now. I had really ****ty dimpled walmart paint... I had what appeared to be a chuff, then barrel break, so I guess I get what I deserved. I also had a chance to test out my Axe with paint as well. Such a nicer connection to the gun with the mags trigger pull. I definately want to add more ULT, I think I was down to 2-3 total. The trigger pull is really crazy light... I am glad that the gun performs with paint. Cheers.
Thanks,
Jason

[Throws]

[...]I definately want to add more ULT, I think I was down to 2-3 total. The trigger pull is really crazy light.

Can you get a lighter trigger pull using a newer style sear with the ULT? or is it just the materials used?

-P

[Stealthpanda]

I would have to assume that less mass is always good in this situation. I never got around to weighing the old sear I had on my classic, and the new one AGD sent me about a month ago. Clearly less mass though.
Thanks,
Jason

[Throws]

But there is no difference to the geometry?

-P

[Stealthpanda]

This is what the "new one" looks like:
agd0297.jpg
This is what the one that came with my mag looks like, apparently very old too:
agd0346.jpg
Thanks,
Jason