emag xmod 1.8 question

[knownothingmags]

ok so my xmag is being funny
it has lvl ten installed no shims
emag onoff i think,
oh yeah and a red spring.(i have tried with the gold, same issues.
how long is an emag onoff pin?


runs xmod 1.8
FIX is 0
Dwell is 15,
ROF is 10
its on SEMI
no ace, ace is off

the issue is,
it fires but not every time it reads the magnet.
you can hear the click everytime.
its almost as if it fires in a rythem. NOT as fast as i am pulling the trigger

yes battery is charged and is hold a great charge

OH and when it fires no issues, no leaks and such, no bolt stick either. when the valve fires it cycle perfect.
the bolt spacer is the right one the loosest without leaking.

any and all help would be great.
WORKING ON A VIDEO

thankyou,
KNM.

[athomas]

Does it fire every time in mechanical mode? If it fires in mechanical mode, but not in electronic mode, it would indicate a problem with the electronic part. If it has issues in mechanical mode as well, then your problem is valve related.

The emag pin length is 0.712".

Is your air line allowing a good air flow? A restriction in the air line or within the valve could restrict the air flow and cause a mechanically predetermined time to charge before the valve can fire again. Is the sear actually fully resetting?

Another issue might be that your solenoid might not be generating enough force to fully pull in the plunger. Have you checked your solenoid plunger length to be 3.005"? Have you checked that your plunger rod hasn't gotten bent?

[knownothingmags]

Does it fire every time in mechanical mode? If it fires in mechanical mode, but not in electronic mode, it would indicate a problem with the electronic part. If it has issues in mechanical mode as well, then your problem is valve related.

The emag pin length is 0.712".

Is your air line allowing a good air flow? A restriction in the air line or within the valve could restrict the air flow and cause a mechanically predetermined time to charge before the valve can fire again. Is the sear actually fully resetting?

Another issue might be that your solenoid might not be generating enough force to fully pull in the plunger. Have you checked your solenoid plunger length to be 3.005"? Have you checked that your plunger rod hasn't gotten bent?

Yes mechanical mode is flawless.

I'll check the plunger and its length. Thank you.

How do I measure plunger length

[knownothingmags]

Had wrong on off pin in. Replaced with right one. It helped but didn't make it perfect.

Now just need to figure out how to measure the plunger length
***edit. If I'm measuring right, and I am probably not, the plunger measures 2.35"

[knownothingmags]

So can the magnet in the trigger be flipped around? Is one pole better for the HES?

If I take the lowers off it works fine.

[Cyco-Dude]

ROF is 10...its almost as if it fires in a rythem. NOT as fast as i am pulling the trigger

i think this is the problem. you are pulling the trigger faster than 10 bps, and the board does not store the trigger pulls. set the rof to 15 and see what it does.

*edit*
ah, didn't see the video.

[flampaint]

by looking at the video I would say you're not pulling the trigger @ > 10 bps in electro. But maybe try setting the bps cap higher than 10bps regardless as Cyco-Dude stated before.
Have you checked the solenoid's integrity/cleanliness? Sometimes sanding down the plunger just a little bit (more like "cleaning" it with a really fine sandpaper) goes a long way.

IMHO however, I'd start with measuring/checking if all is at standard spec (plunger length, pin, sear length)

As to the polarity of the magnet which activates the HES: As far as I can recall from rebuilding an E-Mag frame a year ago (I hate myself in retrospect for not documenting that rebuild which really was from the ground up) flipping the pole of the magnet which activates the HES will literally do nothing - i.e. it won't activate the HES (I could be wrong though, since this was a while ago...)

Measuremt how-to: There's a thread about all specs in which BlackVCG stated the following regarding measurement

The measurement should be taken from the top of the arm on the sear that the clevis attaches to down to the tip of the plunger. Measuring from these spots you should get 3.005" for the total length.

This is the thread: http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?67604

Hope that helps!
Nice marker btw

[flampaint]

this thread and (once again) BlackVCG's advice might also be of help:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?264383

[Cyco-Dude]

Had wrong on off pin in. Replaced with right one. It helped but didn't make it perfect.

are you using a quad o-ring in the on/off top?

[BigEvil]

Check your solenoid plunger like AThomas said. Make sure the orings in the on/off assembly are good and lubed and that the pin moves nice and easily. Old orings make the solenoid work too hard.

Increasing your dwell to 20, then 25, then 30 might bandaid the problem by increasing the 'on' time for the solenoid. This is provided the battery is good, which is a whole other story.

Speaking of which, throw another on there to see if it fixes the issue.

I know you should have another

[knownothingmags]

Thanks for the replies. I'll work on it today.

[athomas]

So can the magnet in the trigger be flipped around? Is one pole better for the HES?

Only one polarity will function. If it works now, don't change it.


The plunger length is measured from the pointed tip of the plunger to the farthest outer tip of the clevis.

[athomas]

Looking at the video, it really does look like your solenoid takes more than one hit to pull it in. That would be a low power situation caused by either a battery that is not putting out enough current, or a solenoid that isn't generating enough pull. Setting your solenoid plunger to the correct 3.005" length will give it the maximum pull force for all situations.

You might want to check your battery connections as well. This includes all wires and connections from the battery all the way to the board. This includes the ground connection where the board fastens into the grip frame. Since you had the gun annodized, one of the ground connections could now be a high resistance point.

Check your battery to see if it is good.

[knownothingmags]

Looking at the video, it really does look like your solenoid takes more than one hit to pull it in. That would be a low power situation caused by either a battery that is not putting out enough current, or a solenoid that isn't generating enough pull. Setting your solenoid plunger to the correct 3.005" length will give it the maximum pull force for all situations.

You might want to check your battery connections as well. This includes all wires and connections from the battery all the way to the board. This includes the ground connection where the board fastens into the grip frame. Since you had the gun annodized, one of the ground connections could now be a high resistance point.

Check your battery to see if it is good.

i think the battery is the issue.
what is the safe range of voltage the battery should be at after sitting,
say, i charge it, take it off charger, come home at lunch, check the voltage, what should the battery be at for voltage?

oh and yeah the plunger was a hair short. fixed that.

[flampaint]

i think the battery is the issue.
what is the safe range of voltage the battery should be at after sitting,
say, i charge it, take it off charger, come home at lunch, check the voltage, what should the battery be at for voltage?

There's a thread here with your same/similar problem (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?270147 )where you'll find the following statement about voltage:

That,s correct ,its hard to measure batt voltage under load without an oscilloscope or an analogue meter. If you own a digital multimeter ,its not impossible for this task ,and it does try to capture the cylcing of up and down voltage during full auto , aired up .

I just went through this with my X-mag ( my particular problem ended up resulting in 2 failed battery's , under a load ! That's rite both of them !
I just kept telling myself " They are not that old " 1st one is 5yrs old , 2nd one is (?how ever many?) years old and gets hot when charging ,and never gets off the red ,full charge status . That one i suspected had a bad cell , set it aside ,called it bad for now . The 5 yr old KC battery held a charge 19.2 volts sitting around
This is what i did to test them under load , meaning aired up, in E-mode only .Set meter to DC volts
Put the red lead on one of the white solenoid wire soldered points on the board , Black on the board ground screw above the display ,hold down on the trigger on full auto ,
watch the numbers cycle . It happens very fast so watch for the lowest number during cycle ,trigger held,and highest number ,this was the data i got

5 yr old KC batt- 17.19v - resting Voltage / 11.57v trigger held down in full auto- garbage
old batt gets hot - 16.7v - resting Voltage / 8.26v trigger held down in full auto - garbage
brand new AGD batt- 20.01v - resting Voltage / 12.32v trigger held down in full auto -bingo ,never dropped below 12.32volt

this was the hard lessen that i learned. If batt voltage drops below 12.00volts , the solenoid is not going to be strong enough to pull plunger all the way down ! Until i checked these older batt's under load , i was convinced that a batt that holds a charge idle,sitting around if fine . Not true ,i would check battery if you own a multi-meter , to eliminate this and then move on if its not that .
solenoids do get weak after so many years ,but before you condemn one ,make sure battery is not to blame . that's what happened to me. Thought it was solenoid ,wound up just being a failing battery

hope that helps...