There might be some confusion going on between us here. I thought you meant an RT style valve with a stock on/off for some reason. My suggestion, on the other hand, was to get an RT style valve that could accept a ULT. But if he doesn't have the $200+ to buy in to the 15 ounce pull club, then yeah, it's a non-factor like you said, and the next best thing would be to invest in an RT on/off as a $25 drop-in upgrade to his classic valve for a 4 lb. pull.
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Last edited by ghost flanker; 09-20-2016, 04:53 PM. -
Guys I appreciate all the responses. .....just a thought, but what about an X valve with the classic single trigger frame? Is that doable? Is the "RT" action harder to get a handle on without the leverage of a double trigger? I'm not totally against the double trigger, but my preference would be to keep it single if possible. I only played with an RT trigger one time, WAY back when they were new. It was cool, and I remember loving it, but honestly it's been so long....I hardly remember it. I'm not made of money, but the X valve is still way cheaper than the PE Ethas that my son and wife play with, so it's not out of the question.Comment
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Even with firing one finger, because of the extra room in the trigger guard of an Intelliframe or other double trigger frame, you will be able to fire faster.
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The single frames work well. I prefer the AGD single trigger frame on RT's and x-valves. Stock valves are too stiff to walk easily on a long trigger. It's not a pneumag or electronic walk at least, more like a low pull and high pull. I prefer the shorter trigger travel to the sensitivity and travel of the longer trigger. If I'm not RT'ing, I prefer the single trigger even more. Some people actually like the long trigger for ordinary semi shooting though, often using their middle finger.
An x-valve on a single frame with your selected amount of bounce is a tasty machine.Comment
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That sounds tempting :) ...I may give that a shot! ....and I figure I can always add the double trigger if I'm so inclined.An x-valve on a single frame with your selected amount of bounce is a tasty machine.Comment
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X-Valve FTW!
If you go the X-Valve route, I still recommend a ULT on/off assembly over the RT on/off assembly for a single trigger setup.Comment
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Interesting that you say that. Keep in mind I have NO practical experience with it either way. I would think that a heavier trigger would be easier to sweet spot. Again.....no experience...may totally be the opposite.If you go the X-Valve route, I still recommend a ULT on/off assembly over the RT on/off assembly for a single trigger setup.Comment
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That's true, but there's two parts to that. First is how much you want to play with RT bounce; some people think it has no place on the field today. Second, a ULT can bounce, but it takes a while longer for everything to wear in and for you to get used to it. A high output tank that bounces a stock RT on/off pretty hard may bounce a ULT just a little. Blend your valve condition, bottle reg, and on/off to match your frame and trigger finger.Comment
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An RT on/off with a shaved down pin and a Ninja SHP can do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb2OOl21bdE
...and at 1250 psi (using an old school Armageddon reg), it can do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saIsaOj11K0
On the other hand, a ULT on/off with 4 or 5 shims and a Ninja SHP can do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HIh3JytP2E
The ULT may or may not bounce quite as readily as an RT on/off (and certainly not as fast), but it is much more controllable than an RT on/off. I find it rather difficult to pull off single shots with bouncy RTs. You really have to deliberately release the trigger to make single shots. Otherwise, you'll unintentionally double fire, or fire on the trigger release like an Autoresponse frame. RT bounce can be really touchy and difficult to control, even with full length pins, and I don't find them to be the most pleasant setup to shoot.
By the way, I do not use these rates of fire during walk-on games. No way. I'm not down with scaring rental players away from paintball for the rest of their lives. The ULT bounce...meh...I would use it in speedball against a full team of electros, but I wouldn't use super RT bounce to rain down 25 bps on any living thing. That's for backyard shenanigans, only.Last edited by ghost flanker; 10-17-2016, 02:14 PM.Comment
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With a bouncy RT (pressure <1000), you can pull all the way through, and release quickly for a single shot. It can be hard to tap or creep up on a single shot.
As you lower the input pressure, the RT rate tends to go down. I tend to figure 800 psi will be around 12 bps (if you can catch it), 950 is about 14-15 bps, 1100 around 20. When you hit the pressure where you have to really hunt for the bounce, you can kick it in when you try just with your finger pull, otherwise it's a semi. The Steyr AUG is actually designed that way on the trigger operation.Comment
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As for ROF....RT trigger, electronic double trigger, ramping....I admit it's not necessary. -BUT....it's here...and doesn't appear to be going anywhere. My preference would be to have an easy to control, low ROF bounce. My goal was never modern day rates of fire, but rather to augment a trigger I didn't care for. If a modest bounce gets me 10-12 and I can control it.....bingo. .....I imagine that the bounce, even if I can't sweet spot, would give me the trigger I'm hoping for. I was talking to the tech guy at the shop, and he's pretty sure my Ninja tank is a little over 850, but we're gonna actually measure and see.Comment
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Xvalve and take the on/off pin and with a digital set of calipers measure it. Then with file, slowly take it down. Reinstall and test it with the tank. Some people are fine with stock, myself i like it right around .720 pin. This has the basic principle as a ULT trigger but simplier in use. I wouod go down and test every .005 till you find a good balance between reactivity and bounce.
Doing this, you set the valve to the tank. No need to set up the tank to the valve, no need for pressure testing, or anything like that. It works for single, double, or any reactive trigger.Comment
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Guys, thanks for all the replies. ....I'll keep you updated as to what's happening.Comment
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Soooo a funny thing happened. Played a good 4 hours with the Mag today, still with the classic valve....and I had an awesome day. Maybe it was the new o rings all settling in....maybe it was my new Empire jersey helping me look good....maybe it was just that I needed a few solid games where I was a contributing factor to win after win, and the Mag was in my hands. Maybe I just needed a little confidence. I used the .680 barrel from the Resurrection, and it was threading needles. I may play with it this way for a good bit before I pull the trigger on that X valve.Comment
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