Switched rails now having issues

[Xyxyll]

Suffice to say, because Luke could not follow AGD spec, any time you use a Luke rail, you will experience a problem. You loose the reliability, you loose the flexibility of swapping parts with any AGD product(except for the classic RT), and you just plain loose. Its sad to say, but the truth is, Luke's new rails changed the geometry of the sear and you will have nothing but problems.

Oh come on. That statement is not only wrong but extremely inappropriate.

[jbtamu1011]

Suffice to say, because Luke could not follow AGD spec, any time you use a Luke rail, you will experience a problem. You loose the reliability, you loose the flexibility of swapping parts with any AGD product(except for the classic RT), and you just plain loose. Its sad to say, but the truth is, Luke's new rails changed the geometry of the sear and you will have nothing but problems.

Come on Nobody, you've already been down this road before. Luke has put up disclaimers and items to look out for on his site. We're lucky and fortunate that Luke does take the time to respond to people with issues to try to get their stuff working again.

Just as your title under your name says, "Nobody's Perfect". Remember that.

[Tunaman]

Pro Team/Benchmark, 32 Degrees, Dye, Omega, Taso, almost all of them couldn't get the spec right. This is why when you sent your gun to AGD with any of these aftermarket parts on your gun AGD would take them off. The parts were basically ****. Not saying Luke's stuff is bad as I have never had one of his rails that didnt work. Always take your dimensions off of an old school 68 Automag and it will work every time. Dont change the specs and expect people to know any different down the road.

[luke]

For all intents and purpose Hybrid Rails are Automag rails, and they are to spec where it matters. I have sold 100 Hybrid rails, I'll warrant these two markers have some other issue.

[luke]

No one uses Automag rails on Emags, does that make classic rails out of spec?

[RossT]

For all intents and purpose Hybrid Rails are Automag rails, and they are to spec where it matters. I have sold 100 Hybrid rails, I'll warrant these two markers have some other issue.

You are probably right. My marker was working fine before I switched rails and I switched it back to the old rail with a new sear with unadjusted trigger rod and it isn't shooting either, so it can't be the rail.

[luke]

You are probably right. My marker was working fine before I switched rails and I switched it back to the old rail with a new sear with unadjusted trigger rod and it isn't shooting either, so it can't be the rail.

No worries, we'll get it straighten out.

Did you get the marker in the mail yet?

[luke]

This is an overlay of the RTP and Hybrid rails, the only spec difference between the two is the .0714" BELOW the sear pin. The proper spec is maintained between the sear, on/off, bolt, and body. I have compared my CAD to the AGD CAD files and they are exact where it matters.

If these rails or anything I do pisses you off, hold my beer because I'm only getting started!

HYbrid RTP.PNG

[mobsterboy]

This is an overlay of the RTP and Hybrid rails, the only spec difference between the two is the .0714" BELOW the sear pin. The proper spec is maintained between the sear, on/off, bolt, and body. I have compared my CAD to the AGD CAD files and they are exact where it matters.

If these rails or anything I do pisses you off, hold my beer because I'm only getting started!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]101195[/ATTACH]

Paging Nummech to the "Luke Rail Spec Debate" thread... Paging Nummech to the "Luke Rail Spec Debate" thread

[Xyxyll]

Paging Nummech to the "Luke Rail Spec Debate" thread... Paging Nummech to the "Luke Rail Spec Debate" thread

To be fair, it's just as fair to say Nummech isn't compatible with LC rails. It's a two-way street and and that incompatibility can pretty easily be fixed by Nummech. The sear design on hybrid rails is a design choice, not an oversight.

[luke]

The Classic AM sear sits below the bottom of the rail too.

Neummech and I have already discussed this, he said he was going to make adjustments on the next run of frames if he makes more.

[Nobody]

Oh come on. That statement is not only wrong but extremely inappropriate.

No. The one feature, before it was a feature, was the modularity of AGD products. Other than the classic RT, you can take any product and apply it to any other and it will function properly. Not saying things won't wear out or come out of spec(spring packs, sear rods, springs, etc), but within the hard parts, their should be a set spec that you stay in and things will work as intended by Tom Kaye.

By changing the spec, you are changing the reliability and the use of product.

[Nobody]

Come on Nobody, you've already been down this road before. Luke has put up disclaimers and items to look out for on his site. We're lucky and fortunate that Luke does take the time to respond to people with issues to try to get their stuff working again.

Just as your title under your name says, "Nobody's Perfect". Remember that.

Disclaimer? Just staying in spec would remove the need for a disclaimer and the problems associated with a part that does not work.

So, everyone that made products(Magnus, Tuna, XMT, KAM, Deadlywinds, etc) is wrong for staying within spec? Did they take it upon themselves to alter parts just for their needs? No, those before knew to stay within the guidelines so everyone can use parts without problems.

And it's 'Nobody is perfect'...

[Nobody]

This is an overlay of the RTP and Hybrid rails, the only spec difference between the two is the .0714" BELOW the sear pin. The proper spec is maintained between the sear, on/off, bolt, and body. I have compared my CAD to the AGD CAD files and they are exact where it matters.

If these rails or anything I do pisses you off, hold my beer because I'm only getting started!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]101195[/ATTACH]

If it matters, then the geometry to the trigger would be correct and there would be no need for spacers, sear rod adjustment, nor you to fix anything to get good, reliable parts.

[Xyxyll]

No. The one feature, before it was a feature, was the modularity of AGD products. Other than the classic RT, you can take any product and apply it to any other and it will function properly. Not saying things won't wear out or come out of spec(spring packs, sear rods, springs, etc), but within the hard parts, their should be a set spec that you stay in and things will work as intended by Tom Kaye.

By changing the spec, you are changing the reliability and the use of product.

Disclaimer? Just staying in spec would remove the need for a disclaimer and the problems associated with a part that does not work.

So, everyone that made products(Magnus, Tuna, XMT, KAM, Deadlywinds, etc) is wrong for staying within spec? Did they take it upon themselves to alter parts just for their needs? No, those before knew to stay within the guidelines so everyone can use parts without problems.

And it's 'Nobody is perfect'...

If it matters, then the geometry to the trigger would be correct and there would be no need for spacers, sear rod adjustment, nor you to fix anything to get good, reliable parts.

I think I understand why you're frustrated, but I think you're perceiving Luke's design choice to be a bigger issue than it is. Yes, everything north of the sear pin in the sear assembly MUST match AGD spec otherwise you're going to have serious issues. But the hybrid rails are fully complaint there! South of that sear pin however is a lot more flexibility. If there wasn't, then you'd never get a Benchmark frame to work. Benchmark frames reposition the sear rod in a rather weird orientation and often/always require a sear rod adjustment. Ever seen any of rawbutter's modded frames? None of those frames are even remotely close to AGD spec, yet they still work. There's a lot more room to play around south of the sear pin than you may realize.

The only currently incompatible product, at least that I know of, is the Nummech frames, and it's not fair to blame that only on LC. Both products are aftermarket and neither designer can be expected or responsible to know each other's design. Nummech's frames have a narrower gap than AGD frames. We're not calling foul about that. Both manufacturers have already talked and worked out a solution for products moving forward.

Instead of hating, can we not just applaud both Nummech and LC for making cool gas-through frames and automag-height RTP rails? This community is small, and I want to see it grow. Discouraging innovation isn't going to help us grow.