** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

[chairChimp]

Just a quick thought for you folks..

Well more likely to be for athomas as he seems to be pretty active on the tech forum.

I've got an X-mag with usual lvl10 kit and abbadon air system @ 4.5k

Taking my mag out, attaching the bottle and turning the reg up to 800 psi I felt the usual click as the trigger engages due to the gas. No problem. However with everything set as normal one single trigger pull would make the valve cycle some 4 or 5 times. If it turned down the input pressure then the bolt would stick open and the valve would sit there happily leaking air.

Can't be too hard to fix I thought, so armed with the relevant exploded pictures of all the parts I took the bolt/valve assembly apart inspected everything for wear and with a little lube popped it all back together. Now in the course of this I noticed that there were no shims behind the carrier and in front of the delrin backing o-ring.

Anyway I popped it all back together and it works fine, cycling once per trigger pull. Now my query is exactly how did I fix this? I had previously lubed everything that requires it and shot some oil drops through the valve so the re-lubing shouldn't have done anything new.
My worry is that at some random point, possibly mid-game, it will start thumping out more than one ball per trigger pull or just fire slowly due to the lvl10 venting to prevent balls chopping.

Does the lack of shims make any difference to the setup? I don't believe it should, if it works with none, then I thought that was fine.


Hmmm, I hope this makes sense....all help/thoughts/comments gratefullt recieved.

Chimp

[athomas]

... I noticed that there were no shims behind the carrier and in front of the delrin backing o-ring.....

Does the lack of shims make any difference to the setup? I don't believe it should, if it works with none, then I thought that was fine.

No, the shims do not do anything except change how far the bolt has to go before it can vent air and return. Many people don't use any shims at all. If you did use shims, they would go in front of the carrier not between the carrier and the backing washer.

It is quite possible that your on-off o-ring was pushed out of place or distorted due to sticking possibly caused by a piece of dirt. The result was air prematurely getting to the chamber before the sear was fully set. The higher input pressure allowed fast enough recharge to fire the marker. Once you reduced the input pressure, the recharge was not fast enough to charge the front chamber fro firing , but did prevent the bolt from resetting. By cleaning the valve, you effectively released any stuck o-rings and cleaned any dirt out of the system.

Dirt is one of the main causes of malfunctions in all mags. It doesn't take much so you should give your mag a good cleaning every once in a while jsut to make sure its operational when you need it.

[Stoble]

little leak

I just got another mag (Automag classic) a few days ago and am having a problem with it. It leaks quitly out of the barrel even when I use a very tight carrier. I think it may have something to do with the valve alignement because it gets smaller when I unscrew the field strip screw a bit, but it doesn't get rid of it. It gets worse when I overtighten it. If I push on the bolt the leaking gets louder too. I tried a different o-ring with the same results. I can screw the reg on a bit tighter so that the engraving of 68Automag don't quite line up, should it line up perfectly or not? My micromag works fine even when screwed on this tight. I would try it but I'm out of air till sunday. Oh, and one more symptom.... if i put a bit of pressure against the trigger it stops leaking.

current setup:
carrier #2.5
0 shims for troubleshooting leak
middle (red) spring

[athomas]

Stoble:

A leak that stops when you pull the trigger slightly indicates a shim issue. Since you are not using any shims, it is possible that the sear is worn a bit. This could explain all the problems you are experiencing. So, ckeck the sear tip for wear.

The engraving does not have to line up perfectly.

[Stoble]

sear wear

thanks athomas for the quick response. I looked at the sear and it looked fine to me, but when I used a sear off my functioning micromag and put it in my automag the leak stopped. So my question is, how do you tell if a sear is worn? I couldn't tell by looking at it. What am I supposed to look for?

[athomas]

It doesn't take much wear to cause problems on the sear tip. They are hardened so they don't wear much which is good.

If you look very carefully at the sear tip, you will notice the contact area where it holds the bolt. The full point of contact is about 1/8". If this contact area is a shiney silver and is slightly indented from the rest of the sear front, then it is worn. The indent may be so slight that you might not notice it at first.

[awilli234life]

ok i need advice

i'm installing a level 10 kit on a classic valve with a shocktec chamber----- i want to know which bumper to use the clear one or the blue one thankx pm me --- don't pollute the thread with banter thankx -- oldschool

[Stoble]

chops

I played on sunday and my lv.10 was chopping. The chrono limit is 300 (I chronoed at 290 to 295), so I used the middle spring b/c I usually use the small (gold) spring. After chronoing with the middle (red) spring I played and was chopping. I can't seem to make the lv.10 work at this velocity, I tried the longest (silver) spring and it still hit's my finger just as hard. Any ideas? Do I have to play at 265 fps just for lv.10 to work?

my setup:
#2 carrier, 2 shims and middle spring

[athomas]

i'm installing a level 10 kit on a classic valve with a shocktec chamber----- i want to know which bumper to use the clear one or the blue one thankx pm me --- don't pollute the thread with banter thankx -- oldschool

Use the blue bumper for classic valves.

[AGD202]

if u are actually chopping... make sure that u have the carrier in, in the right direction.... i did that without paying attention and it chopped ALL DAY and then i finnaly relized what had happened

[HarrysSon]

why wont it work?!

my lvl 10 is makin the balls fall out of the barrel and the valve is coughing and sometimes takes a while to get the air flow into the valve please send me a private message of what is going on and how to fix it

[athomas]

my lvl 10 is makin the balls fall out of the barrel and the valve is coughing and sometimes takes a while to get the air flow into the valve please send me a private message of what is going on and how to fix it

What is your gun and valve setup? It could be as simple as having a carrier that is too tight.

[cote_says]

hey. i m just installing my L10 bolt. when i put it al togther and gassed it up all it did was leak. even with the smallest carrier. the mallest one was to big. whatsss up??/ what should i do??

sry if its already been answerd after page 2 i stoped looking.

[new_guy]

First shot drop off

I just picked up a lvl 10 and played with it for the first time. A problem I seem to be having is I have to pull the trigger 4 or 5 times before my gun will shoot, and the first shot is pretty weak. I've also noticed that if I wait for a while in between shots, around a minuet, the first shot or two is pretty weak. I have no problems with rapid fire, or any thing else once I get my mag "warmed up". I can shoot the mag as fast as I can without chopping paint, and I have some pretty fast fingers. I was running around 270 fps that day. I have two shims and the largest carrier I can put on it without leaking. Any suggestion?

gun set up:
retro vlv
intelli frame
ule vert feed body
lv 10
68/4500 3A N2 tank, preset to 850 psi
dye 03 stickies
halo b
14" tear drop freak

[athomas]

What bolt spring are you using? Did you set the carrier size without the shims installed?

It is possible that the leak you experienced with the next larger carrier was due to the presence of the shims. Remove the shims when checking the carrier size.

If the carrier is set up properly, you may be using a bolt spring that is too stiff for the bolt to cycle properly. Try a lighter bolt spring.

Once the carrier o-ring is broken in, it will work more consistently under all conditions.