** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

[SWE HooK]

yes you are right in that the white backing is stopping the oring from falling out of the carrier.

my theory is that with no spacers the carrier might be sliding back and forth in the powertube and ther is enough space for the oring to fall out of the carrier as mentiond so therfor i started to thinking abut the problem and came out with a solution to try with fixating the carrier as this in theory atleast make things more predictable if thay not flopping around uncontrolably and also in my "experimenting" without spacers ther where contact between carrier and bolt as mentiond in my previous post.
note that im not claming my way is the right way but only one of the ways to tune LVL10 bolts.

[athomas]

might as well tell how how my LVL10 is adjusted, first i tryed to make the adjustment as recomended by AGD find the right oringcarrier and no spacers ecept the white backing that is placed behind the carrier.

at first just to find the right carrier that make the right fit and not leaking air, then adding spacers betwen carrier and powertubetipp till it start to leak out the LVL10 venting hole witch my bolt did not do eaven with all five spacers so i ended upp using four spacers and placed the fifth behind the white backspacer.

mind that when mounting the spacers between carrier and powertubetipp to use enough spacers between carrier and powertubetipp sins the tipp of the bolt that goes in to powertube make a increase in diameter about 1/4inch in on the tipp and that the bolt dont end upp hammering the carrier with this diameter change and bolt stopps against the bumper on the valve as intended not against the carrier as would be whitout any spacers.

so i settled with four spacers and the fifth spacer i placed behind the white backing, so it is now staked in this order counted from bottom of powertube... one spacer, white backing, oringcarrier, four spacers and last power tube tip.
as i find out atlest om my valve ther where exact room for all spacers and backing whitout squeeze anything and all spacers and carrier is riggidly mounted when powertube tipp is torqued down properly.
im using gold spring to make my marker work on lowest pressure as posible for best air efficiency and still cycle as intended and no problem with chopped paint eaven tryed some tourney paint and no problem whit that either.

The spacer behind the white backing washer does nothing. The backing washer is only there so that the carrier oring doesn't get pushed out of the carrier when you put the bolt in the valve when no air pressure exists in the chamber.

The fact that your able to use 5 shims without a powertube leak is not normal. If it works then great. It just means that either the bolt is sitting farther back while at rest, or the valve is sitting farther forward. The larger diameter of the bolt stem will never contact the front of the carrier assembly, so you don't need to add shims to prevent it from happening. Shims are only there to change the distance that the bolt needs to move before it can vent air if it contacts something in the breach. Most of the time, if you place something directly in front of the bolt, it will still move far enough to vent air and reset even if you use no shims at all. I've never seen a properly operating level 10 mag ever need shims in the powertube. Now, since yours is a bit longer than normal, it might not hurt to have them.

The shims don't affect the operation of the level 10. Only the carrier size and oring combination affects the ability to shoot properly. The springs will affect the amount of forward force of the bolt. As you have noticed, the gold spring works quite well and is the most efficient one to use.

[SWE HooK]

might as well tell how how my LVL10 is adjusted, first i tryed to make the adjustment as recomended by AGD find the right oringcarrier and no spacers ecept the white backing that is placed behind the carrier.

at first just to find the right carrier that make the right fit and not leaking air, then adding spacers betwen carrier and powertubetipp till it start to leak out the LVL10 venting hole witch my bolt did not do eaven with all five spacers so i ended upp using four spacers and placed the fifth behind the white backspacer.

mind that when mounting the spacers between carrier and powertubetipp to use enough spacers between carrier and powertubetipp sins the tipp of the bolt that goes in to powertube make a increase in diameter about 1/4inch in on the tipp and that the bolt dont end upp hammering the carrier with this diameter change and bolt stopps against the bumper on the valve as intended not against the carrier as would be whitout any spacers.

so i settled with four spacers and the fifth spacer i placed behind the white backing, so it is now staked in this order counted from bottom of powertube... one spacer, white backing, oringcarrier, four spacers and last power tube tip.
as i find out atlest om my valve ther where exact room for all spacers and backing whitout squeeze anything and all spacers and carrier is riggidly mounted when powertube tipp is torqued down properly.
im using gold spring to make my marker work on lowest pressure as posible for best air efficiency and still cycle as intended and no problem with chopped paint eaven tryed some tourney paint and no problem whit that either.

[athomas]

Essentially my RT will not fire.

I went through the usual troubleshooting steps, and I was not able to find a carrier that would allow the marker to fire, leaking or not leaking.

(I used the same oring for testing and the gold spring that came with the L10 kit)

Input pressure is 800psi, verified with a temp gauge installed on the body rail port, and as suggested in this thread I turned the velocity up until it started venting out the back - still would not fire.

Use the gold spring for testing purposes. It will allow you to keep the operating pressure as low as it can be. Install the largest carrier that doesn't produce a leak. Basically, you should keep increasing the carrier size, using the same white oring, until you develop a leak out the front. Then go back to the last smaller one that didn't leak. That will be your carrier and oring setup. Now its just a matter of increasing the velocity until the gun cycles. If the regulator piston assembly is bleeding too much air off, then you might never reach a high enough pressure to cycle. However, using the gold spring, it shouldn't be an issue unless the regulator piston assembly is really bad.

Check for bolt interference. The level 10 bolt is really sensitive to friction.

Check the body washer to make sure it isn't causing friction on the bolt. Over time, sometime the body washer can get squeezed inward. If this occurs, just run a round file through the center to clean our the burrs and open it back up to the original size.

Also, try cycling without the barrel. If the barrel isn't centered in the body properly, it could cause friction issues with the bolt.

[Sandman]

Email me directly at AGD if you need some final tweaking...We'll get it going.

[OldSchool_RT]

That makes sense - I will order the new reg piston assembly asap.

Really appreciate the insight everyone!

A.

[rawbutter]

It should work if you turn up the velocity, regardless of whether you also need a new piston. If it shoots but also leaks out the back after turning up the velocity, then you should upgrade the piston. If it doesn't leak, you're good to go. Well, maybe. I've had regulator pistons that seemed fine after upgrading to Level 10, but then they started leaking after a month or two. So you'll have to wait and see.

[Soonersdds]

First thought would be if you have one of the older reg piston assemblies that simply can not be turned up high enough to operate the level X without venting. Possibly try this?

http://www.airgundesigns.com/product-p/000822.htm

[vintage]

turn your velocity up and make sure you have a new regulator piston as the old ones can't handle the pressure increase needed for the L10

[OldSchool_RT]

Hi all -

I recently purchased a L10 kit (finally back in stock - thanks Tim!) for my RT Classic and I am experiencing some issues and looking for some assistance.

Essentially my RT will not fire.

I went through the usual troubleshooting steps, and I was not able to find a carrier that would allow the marker to fire, leaking or not leaking.

(I used the same oring for testing and the gold spring that came with the L10 kit)

Input pressure is 800psi, verified with a temp gauge installed on the body rail port, and as suggested in this thread I turned the velocity up until it started venting out the back - still would not fire.

Also worth noting the trigger pressure was very soft while this was occurring, and often pulling the trigger had no effect.

I removed all the LV10 parts, reinstalled my old bolt + power tube spacer\oring and the gun cycles fine, with the normal trigger pull and RT effect.

This, at least to me, would rule out an on\off issue, but also means I am out of ideas..

Any help and or additional troubleshooting tips would be greatly appreciated!

A.

[Pudgey51]

may as well re-post this:

I Screen shot this for later use. Thanks!!

[athomas]

The sear on the left came to me in a minimag tricked out by Palmer's pursuit.
This is the sear I'm primarily using in the x valve set up.

The sear is very old, I don't know how much play it actually saw, the gun was long forgotten when I aqquired it.

So it could be the sear has worn like previously suggested.

Played yesterday all day with very little problems. The gun stuck up only a few times across five hours of play. I degas and regas the marker and it fires on.

"Sticking up" means bolt forward and leaking down barrel.

The sear on the right is from ans gear and was only used briefly in the x valve, and seemed to be more problematic than the old one. It seemed to have a lot play side to side and so I dropped it to the minimag. Appears to work ok with the minimag.

The sear on the left is an original automag sear. The one on the right is the next generation. It is a little lighter so it reacts better. You can check the wear at the lip where it catches the bolt. There should not be any noticable indentation worn on that lip.

[tucson.az.jbreen]

The sear on the left came to me in a minimag tricked out by Palmer's pursuit.
This is the sear I'm primarily using in the x valve set up.

The sear is very old, I don't know how much play it actually saw, the gun was long forgotten when I aqquired it.

So it could be the sear has worn like previously suggested.

Played yesterday all day with very little problems. The gun stuck up only a few times across five hours of play. I degas and regas the marker and it fires on.

"Sticking up" means bolt forward and leaking down barrel.

The sear on the right is from ans gear and was only used briefly in the x valve, and seemed to be more problematic than the old one. It seemed to have a lot play side to side and so I dropped it to the minimag. Appears to work ok with the minimag.

[athomas]

If its not resetting, then you are getting bolt stick. That is caused by a carrier that is too tight for the oring you are using. If the next carrier size causes leaking and you aren't using shims, then perhaps your sear is worn. A worn sear will cause the bolt to sit farther forward and could slightly expose the bolt stem vent hole. If this happens, you end up installing a carrier that is too tight in order to choke off the leak. Try a new stock sear. It will guarantee that the specs are correct.

[tucson.az.jbreen]

I have tried several combinations of carriers and shims.

the universal problem across all sets of carrier/no shims/some shims seems to be failure to reset after a chop or simulated chop.

right now i have the 1.5 with three shims, after trying 0, 1, 2, and 3.


stock x valve, ule body, lukes custom rail, intelliframe.

also the sear is an after market one that came stock on a minimag from glenn palmer. the pin connects to a higher point and seems shorter.

would a stock sear work better?