** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

[gretch6364]

Yep, that is the situation. The bolt is resetting fine, the carrier o-ring just takes a second to seal. I re-lubed and put in the the red spring and it was better, but guessing I am still gonna have to come down a carrier size, especially as it breaks in. Also, put the two shims in. The shims and spring changed the leak pattern to where it was just a very slight leak after fully resetting that lasted a little longer.

I liked the tension of the carrier o-ring and carrier combo, so do partially wonder about a nick in the o-ring, but they are pretty hard and I did not see any with a visual inspection. Good enough for now I guess and I will get to the game early Sunday and play around with it. Since I re-greased the reg, I don't know the velocity and that could be playing a big part right now. Thanks for the help.

[Doom-king]

OK I just want to make sure I am right before testing and trying to get everything settled, I only have my 22ci tank filled right now. In the middle of a game yesterday my mag started venting after a shot, I could get around this by turning off my air and back on again for another shot, but the process would just repeat. I got back to my car and added three drops of oil thinking that the carrier oring might be dry, that ended up stopping the vent at the end of each shot, but now the bolt is half cycling at full auto when the tank got close to empty the bolt slowed down enough for me to see that it was not completing the cycle.

It is a ULE Pnuemag with a logic frame, I am currently using the shortest spring, but it is rather old. Could my issue stem from the spring finally wearing out? I just have never seen this problem before and am not sure where to look. I do have a full set of new springs, and carriers.


Clarification: What are the possible causes of a automag full auto venting like a tippmann? Can the mainspring be behind this, or could it the carrier oring, or am I overlooking something?

[Cyco-Dude]

well, testing a new spring is easy, but i would look at the sear and bolt lip for any excessive wear / chips.

[athomas]

OK I just want to make sure I am right before testing and trying to get everything settled, I only have my 22ci tank filled right now. In the middle of a game yesterday my mag started venting after a shot, I could get around this by turning off my air and back on again for another shot, but the process would just repeat. I got back to my car and added three drops of oil thinking that the carrier oring might be dry, that ended up stopping the vent at the end of each shot, but now the bolt is half cycling at full auto when the tank got close to empty the bolt slowed down enough for me to see that it was not completing the cycle.

It is a ULE Pnuemag with a logic frame, I am currently using the shortest spring, but it is rather old. Could my issue stem from the spring finally wearing out? I just have never seen this problem before and am not sure where to look. I do have a full set of new springs, and carriers.


Clarification: What are the possible causes of a automag full auto venting like a tippmann? Can the mainspring be behind this, or could it the carrier oring, or am I overlooking something?

Full auto is not a level 10 issue. That is usually an on-off issue, or a worn sear or bolt. The worn sear or bolt is usually a progressive issue that you can feel getting worst over time as you use your mag. It doesn't just happen all of a sudden. Therefore, I would say your problem might be on-off related. If the on-off oring is leaking air, then it lets air into the chamber before the sear can catch the bolt and causes the bolt to go forward again. The chamber is usually not fully charged so it results in a half cycle and not a fully charged shot. The leaking on-off can also cause the bolt to stick so that it isn't far enough back for the sear to catch it. That would result in the leaking air escaping out the front via the bolt stem vent hole. Change your on-off oring first, since it is the easiest to do.

[Doom-king]

Thank you I will try that, I also noticed last night that my spring was about 1 full coil shorter than my new parts kit's shortest spring. My sear and bolt both look fine, I have a spare lv10 kit to compare the bolt to and they look the same.

Edit: so I tore apart my on off assembly on my x valve and oring 22 was flat out gone... I think I found the problem.

[Cyco-Dude]

that would do it! also, not replacing your sear after disassembling your 'mag...i did that once lol. good call athomas.

[Billz804]

After trying tons of different o-rings, I've finally found a decent one, and I've gotten to my smallest carrier that doesn't leak, which is a size 1 (one line). However, the gun doesn't fire. The bolt just chuffs forward and leaks, and then if i keep holding the trigger down, it keeps resetting and chuffing again. It won't reset itself all the way though, it seems. I've cranked my reg almost all the way in.. any ideas?

[Dayspring]

What spring are you using?

[Billz804]

Gold

EDIT:

I'm using a gold spring out of a brand new Level 10 kit. I feel like I've got a good carrier/oring match now, as I'm airing up without leak, and the next carrier causes a slight leak down-barrel.

However, my problem is that I can turn the velocity adjuster all the way in and still not be able to cycle. I replaced my small on/off o-ring, but I'm not sure what else to try. When I pull the trigger, it just "chuffs" half a shot. If I hold the trigger in, it will vent down the barrel and continue to make small chuffs; the bolt won't reset.

Occasionally, if the gun sits, I can fire one full shot, but the bolt still doesn't reset, and I can't complete another cycle for another 30 seconds.

[athomas]

....When I pull the trigger, it just "chuffs" half a shot. If I hold the trigger in, it will vent down the barrel and continue to make small chuffs; the bolt won't reset.

That indicates a problem with the on-off. Which valve do you have, a classic or retro/X valve.

[Billz804]

I have a Retro valve with the stock RT on/off.

[athomas]

I have a Retro valve with the stock RT on/off.

Are all the orings in the valve in good shape? Does your on-off use two orings above the top or just one?

[Billz804]

It's just the single oring. From my initial inspection, all the orings looked good to me. I'll go back over it again to double check..

[Billz804]

I've given most everything a once-over, and I don't see anything that stands out. Are there any orings that you might suspect as the culprit?

Right now it is airing with no leak, I can fire a first shot, and then it seems like there is a slow recharge. If I fire a shot and don't wait for 20 seconds I just get "puffs" and then venting down the barrel from the bolt not resetting.

[athomas]

I've given most everything a once-over, and I don't see anything that stands out. Are there any orings that you might suspect as the culprit?

Right now it is airing with no leak, I can fire a first shot, and then it seems like there is a slow recharge. If I fire a shot and don't wait for 20 seconds I just get "puffs" and then venting down the barrel from the bolt not resetting.

If when you hold the trigger, the puffs of air don't stop, then it is indeed leaking past the valve orings. If the leak slows and stops after a while when you hold the trigger, then the problem is your level 10 setup.

The front chamber can leak from 4 different areas. The first and most obvious is the powertube, but that leak won't stop it from firing. The next obvious one is the on-off oring. The 3rd area is the regulator valve pin oring where the pin goes into the back section of the regulator body. A leak here allows air to flow into the front chamber from the back section through the regulator valve pin assembly. The 4th area is the two orings at the front of the regulator valve pin assembly. I doubt it is one of those two orings, because they usually vent leaked air out through a little hole in the side of the valve.

You can check the valve for leaks by installing it without the bolt and spring. Hold the trigger in and air it up. Gently release the trigger until you start to hear air flow out the front of the powertube. If you release the trigger and air flows out the trigger, and then stops when you pull the trigger, then the regulator part of the valve is sealing properly and your problem is definately the level 10.

Also, check your trigger rod spacing. It should be adjusted so that the back of the trigger rod has a tiny space between it and the back of the trigger when you hold the trigger against the safety (safety on) with the gun aired up.

Check that your rail bushing is in place.