Freaks not what they claim to be?

[pballguy17]

Correct me if i'm wrong, i'm not a huge math wiz...Takign a quick step backwards to ball acceleration. The actul distance taht the ball needs to accelerate would HAVE to b diffrent for every gun. Alot of things that would effect accelration. A lowe pressure gun lets say running 100psi, can shoot a softer paintball b/c it gently PUSHES the ball down there barrel, while a gun shooting at say 800psi smack the ball quickly up to speed. so a gun shooting 100 PSI would need mroe accelration sapce to reach 300FPS, while a gun running at 800PSI would only need a few inches. I'm sure there is some kinda of figures u can use to find the accual accelration of PSI to inches. But than again u need to remeber friction of paintball to barrel, if ur shoving a big ball thru a small hole u need more PSI or dweel to push the ball thru, and fi ur putting a really small ball in a big barrel, ur STILL going to nned mroe air/PSI b/c air is escaping around the edges of the ball.


I think a good test would b find a LOW pressure gun that runs at about 200below PSI, and a high pressure blowback like a spyder running at around 800PSI, get the same barrel/paint match and make a somekinda retractble barrel, than u can C hwo long(or short ) a gun can fire at 300PSI, THAN u have found the needed accelration.. i think.


unless of course i'm totally wrong than forget everything i said

[SlartyBartFast]

pballguy17,

High pressure vs. low pressure is mostly a myth. The pressures refer to the pressures required to operate the marker's cocking mechanism not fire the ball.

Tom Kaye has shown in numerous graphs that the pressure used to fire the ball is virually identical for all markers.

[pballguy17]

hey, could u aim me about that? i'm interstead in the facts of it! my spyder when i got the reg and all the LP stuff on it shot at a lower PSI, and the whole point was less pressure on the ball.. did i waste 200$ of upgrades!!! im me!! AIM SN WatEvrAndEvrAmen

[angelKiller16]

I would just like to ad one point. If you look at all of the 2 piece berrals the second piece is heavyly ported. So if the ball is shot out of the 1st peie straight wouldn't the porting, as sp says, reduce or eleimiante the turbulance behind and in from of the ball. In essence making the fron of the berral pretty much useless ecept for looks and possible some reduction of turbulance insuring a straight flight

[SlartyBartFast]

Pballguy 17,

Don't think you wasted your money. All those mods should make a difference to the force with which the bolt affects the paintball (I think). Hopefully they also helped your shot to shot pressure consistency.

I'm not familiar with Spyders and how they work, so I don't know what the mods actually do or if they are effective.

PS: I'm a complete n00b when it comes to messaging so I'd have no idea how to AIM you.

[pballguy17]

lol, to AIM me would b to log onto aol instant messager type my name in on ur buddy list and than double click it and sending a message, AIM is short for "Aol Instant Messenger"

[rabidchihauhau]

ports & two piece barrels

Once again. ALL the porting does is quiet the barrel. Pressure behind the ball will still be positive (unless the ports are HUGE) for most of the balls' travel throuhg the ported section.

[Slapp]

With a freak system you can size the insert to fit your paint. The insert is 5 inches long. When fired from any marker the rate of acceleration decreases as the paintball moves down the barrel. The Freak therefore provides a good fit for the paintball through the first 5 inches of maximum acceleration for the paintball. Beyond these first 5 inches the freak front is really only a silencer especially with an all american front which is ported to within 2 inches of where it screws into the freak back. Would a longer section of perfect paint to barrel diameter provide greater efficiency and accuracy, most likely. Does the freak's 5 inches of good paint to barrel match provide the ability to match your paint for greater accuracy than any one piece or fixed diameter two piece barrel, yes. The question comes down to: is the ability of a freak to more accurately match a 5 inch section of barrel to the paint typically better than having a longer effective barrel length of say 8 to 10 inches but with perhaps a less precise paint to barrel match with something like a Lapco Bigshot? If you are going to shoot a wide variety of paint under a variety of humidity and temperature conditions the answer is yes. A perfect paint to barrel match should be less critical the farther the ball moves down the barrel. Would there be benefit gained if the Freak inserts provided 8 to 10 inches of matching instead of 5, yes. How critical is it to have that additional 3 to 5 inches of match? I don't think it would outweigh other factors on accuracy.

Keep in mind, the motion of your hand and fingers pulling the trigger and the mechanical action of the bolt firing & marker cycling (such as the back block movement on a cocker)(I just couldn't resist) are factors that will jiggle your marker as you shoot it and therefore contribute to less accuracy. Not even back players stand perfectly still while firing the lanes so there is always some body movement effecting the consistency of your aim, often to a large extent. These movement variables are likely to have far more effect on your accuracy and consistency than an additional couple inches of perfect paint to barrel match.

Discussion of perfect paint to barrel match and effective barrel length is more about air efficiency than accuracy because we tend to be running around and moving while shooting anyway.

Freaks are the best barrel because chicks dig that little one eyed dude emblem.

[rabidchihauhau]

barrels and jiggling

I think it goes without saying that under proper testing conditions, the gun(s) would be chocked down and 'wiggle' would be eliminated.

We ALL agree that 'paint to barrel' issues are still more art than science. I personally believe that there are physical actions going on inside the barrel and inside the ball that affect accuracy which we have not accounted for yet: as evidence for such I present the great amount of variation in 'observed results' (not all of it is due to bad observing technique) and the debate still swirling around such issues as length, porting, backspin, low pressure, high pressure, open and closed and etc.

Those things which have been properly tested (column of air in front of the ball - not, vacuum formed behind the ball, not, bouncing down the barrel, yes, spin induced, not) I accept as fact. Everything else is open to debate.

[Scorch]

Originally posted by Goldie D Pimp
I'm just wondering if they should bother making so many different sized bores, or just go with a small, med, large tube???

EXACTLY!!! Freak owners (new ones) seem to fit paint too tightly. At one point, my whole team had them... It was not a good thing. Our front guys ALWAYS left to field with paint in their porting... I had a 14" Ceramic then (for my Angel) and would always choose it if it was even close to fitting the paint over my freak.

Now I have a cocker thread set of 4 12" J&J Ceramics. .686-.695 They fit every paint I see well enough for near perfect consistency and I never ever have paint breaks. I only carry a squeegie to make my team happy... I'd stopped carrying one for over 8 months until they noticed.

Freaks are evil... costly and are bested by barrels costing a fraction.

Scorch

[hitech]

Re: ports & two piece barrels

Originally posted by rabidchihauhau
Pressure behind the ball will still be positive (unless the ports are HUGE) for most of the balls' travel throuhg the ported section.

Tom doesn't agree with you. Here is a quote from his Tech Tip :

The effective length of the barrel is from the balls position before it's fired, to the place in the barrel where the pressure gets released, This is usually at the first porting holes or the step in the barrel. Porting is there to release gas pressure!! You are effectively stopping the acceleration at the ports so your 14" barrel that is half full of holes only has an effective length of 7".

[Richter]

I was told by a once smart parts sponsored player that SP made everyone on their team to play with the largest size insert.( am not saying what team either; i want to be on the guys good side still and not get him into trouble)

Why do you ask?

It is because paint is inconsistent and if you have one large oblong ball it can and will break(murphy's law ) in the barrel. One thing that SP doesn't want to see is sponsored teams with paint breaks. This would then advertise that the products they make are not as good as they claim. This would advertise that freaks do break paint.

So that sponsored team would shoot the largest insert. They would lose a little efficiency but the most crucial thing for accuracy is not to break paint in the barrel; especially ported barrels

My suggestion to anyone with a freak find the best insert for the paint and then go one size up just in case of those oblong balls.

ported barrels and paint breaks

i do the exact opposite with my lapco 8 inch though. If it's a little too it shoots really straight. it aslo shoots through breaks well.

In conclusion my hypoctrical suggestions and opionion is:

highly ported barrels size up
low ported barrels size down

and the old era 95 armson barrel with the muzzel break cut of for out of round junk.

thats my experience with 68 automag since '95.

[rabidchihauhau]

pressure

What I said and what Tom contends are only seemingly contradictory. I did not say that the pressure remaining was enough to accelerate the ball further, nor did Tom's statement make things a yes or no only thing.

I merely said that pressure remains 'positive' as in 'something greater than ambient'.