Cocker range vs. Mag

[Arturus]

Okay...

Originally posted by FeelTheRT
yes yes, we know, open/closed bolt same ding dang thing.

Cool, glad you already know the 'open/close bolt same F-in thing.' *grins*

Infact, I do as well. The link was just a direct response to the post before and for those who may have not known that such a test was ever conducted. Neat eh?

Originally posted by FeelTheRT
But some people tend to notice that Cocker shoot farther, i personally have not however, many others do.

Did I address anywhere in my post, whether or not people tended to 'believe' their cocker to shoot further than a Mag or any other type of marker? Nope... I didn't even touch on that subject. Besides, I believe the majority of us already know that there are those out there who truly believe that their 'marker' is inherently superior in accuracy as well as range; that's why the thread was started.

It was just a link in response to Z-Zero's post and for others who have never seen it.

Thank you for your very polite and curt response.

[Chris]

I am going to do my best here to explain a few things, keeping out the myths, and leaving only facts. Personal experience shall stay out of it, until the end.

A gun that is consistant shall be more accurate than one that is not as consistant.

Consistancy comes from a good regulator, and a reliable air source. Some guns also use a spring to determine the quantity of air to be released (spyder, cocker) The more consistant this spring is, the more consistant the gun shall be.

Laws of physics are not variables. Two like objects released at the same velocity shall come to rest at the same place.

I know someone else is going to bring it up, so I will answer it here. My flatline shoots farther than my Boomstick...so you must be wrong. Nope, flatline still follows the laws of physics, it just adds backspin on the ball. Think tennis here, if you want the ball to drop right after the net, you put front spin on it, the ball will travel relatively straight for a short distance, then suddenly drop. If you want the ball to go really far, you put some backspin on the ball and its gone. For those of you who dont like that one, think baseball or soccer, same principle.

If you want to say that one gun shoots farther than another, more accurate than another etc etc...tell me why. By just saying that the xxx shoots farther than the yyy, you sound like an idiot. Back up your so called facts aka opinions with proven facts.

Now for the personal note. I have owned more than my fair share of guns, cockers, mags, angels, novas, spyders, tippmans. None shoot any farther or more accurate than the other. The difference is all in the consistancy. By putting a nice air source and or regulator on any of the above guns, they were all able to shoot equally well, given the fact that I had a good paint barrel match.

Is a cocker more consistant than a mag, well yes and no. My last cockers were more consistant than my current mag, hence more accurate. The cockers would get +/- 2fps while my mag gets +/- 5fps. One a single shot, they are all equal, but in rapid fire, the cocker will put ball on top of ball, while the mag has a slightly larger spread at any given distance. I have had mags before that were +/- 2fps, and they shot just as well as said cocker.

As far as the trajectory thing, I have tried this, when keeping both guns perfectly level, measured at the barrel, they shoot the same. The appearance of the cocker/shocker whatever shooting flatter is just that, an optical illusion. These guns tend to be weighted a little differently, and I know that personally, I tend to hold the barrels on them a little higher than my mag. This is what I have found to be the reason for the cockers "flatter" trajectory.

If anyone here wants to continue this thread, feel free, but back up what you say. If you are unable to back up what you say with anything other than "my friend says so" or "its what the pro's do" or anything simmilar, dont bother posting. We dont need anymore of these stupid myths going around. Some newbie will come and hear about these myths and then tell his friends, who tells his friends, and sooner or later its known as the truth.

-Chris

[z-zero]

sweet

I was aware of the closed open bolt tests, I guess what I'm looking for is does the amount of pressure that propells the ball matter? Will it make a difference? Is a higher or lower pressure easier to regulate? Hence easier to make consistent.

z-zero

[2UnREal]

Alright, let me redeem myself. After much thought about that day when I thought the guy that was shooting at me with a cocker was shooting further than me, I know why! After much thought, I remembered it was a little windy, I was shooting against the wind and he was shooting with it. So, now I feel like a big idiot.

[joeyjoe367]

Personally I think there's some sort of "placebo" or "hypochondria" going on with a lot of 'cocker owners (at least those that say that their 'gun shoots further.

My guess is that a lot of people have been told "this gun shoots further than that 'gun" so much that they belive it.

WGP and whoever else makes closed bolt markers have done great as far as marketing goes.

www.paintballstar.com also did a range test. search for it.

[Potatoboy]

Don't search for it. Just go here. I'm such a great guy, ain't I?

[Manuel_FZR]

Hey ... really interesting articles! Has anybody more from that stuff!
Please post the links!

Manuel, the Yamaha link no longer works. Army

[HyperSnyper]

Well now I guess I might as well put my $0.02 in. I have experiences with both guns. My bro has a tricked Cocker, and I have a semi modded Mag. Both guns shoot just about the same.

The myth about the closed bolt action creates a more accurate and long range shot is a myth that has been proven wrong by many paintball boards already (try go to Warpig.com and see their closed vs open test).

As for true facts that are between the 2 guns. Both have completely differing dynamics.

The cocker uses a closed bolt system to supposively shoot the ball without distorting it. However it really isnt doing that at high fire rates since the ball never really has a time to rest. After consistent air exits the regulator, the hammer hits the valve for a determined duration. This dwell period dtermines how long the ball will be propelled in the barrel. However, as the spring weakens due to age, the dwell will get longer and longer and may hurt consistency.

The Mag design is different as it really doesnt have a dwell period. It realies on a fixed volume air chamber. There is no hammer hitting a pin. There is no dwell. This design will guarantee a consistent volume is always delivered to the paintball (unless age of the gun can increase the air chambers size.. which of course is impossible). The only thing that hurts consisteny is short stroking which will choke the path way for the gasses to flow. Other than that, perfect user operation will get perfect consistency.

As you can see, I will stick with the Mag since it has less variables that can affect its consistency. As long as the spring in the regulator is consistent, and there is no short stroking, it should give me a consistent shot every time. While the cocker relies on the consistencies of 2 springs.

Only in theory I beleive the Mag is better. But in the real world, they are just about the same. My brother and I shoot about +/- 3 fps. Both guns look kewl. And both of us have fun out there in the field.

Whats the problem with all this discrmination? Mag or Cocker? Apples or Oranges? Ford or Chevy? Blond or Burnettes? Is one really better than the other?

Its all about preference. Hope this helps.

-Hyper

[mykroft]

This is what I've found myself, shooting a 99 cocker mostly stock, with ANS Gen-X II reg (Internally a Mag Reg), an old Automag and a newer RetroMag. I find the cocker to be slightly more accurate when rapid-firing as it seems to be a more stable gun platform, less kick=better accuracy in rapid fire, however the mag seems more accurate as a snap shooter, since it seems to point better. The cocker was the most consistent gun I owned as well, for various reasons my RetroMag is about +/- 10bps as currently setup, I'm tuning it to be better. I expect the new superbolt will make the mag a more stable platform, which will improve accuracy when rapid firing.

It's all in the personal preference bit.