ELCD with a retro

[pbmanic]

this may be a stupid question,
what is the pin that the seer pushes to make gun shoot called. the bolt and seer you are talking about aren't actually in the valve are they? thanks
tyler

[hitech]

I just installed a HyperFrame on my classic 'mag. Here is what I found out. BTW, Mine just bolted up and appears to be functioning perfectly.

One of the ways a HyperFrame (I assume Boo Yaahs are the same) is by not allowing the sear to catch "all" of the bolt. If the sear just barely catches the bolt they will both wear very fast and fail. You can adjust the solenoid if it is keeping the sear from moving all the way forward. Here is a excerpt of how:

First, Make sure you do have the setting to 5 07. You mentioned you do, ok. What you need to do next is take the gun down to just the trigger frame. On top there should be 4 hex screws really small buggers. Loosen them ever so slightly so that you can move the solenoid back and forth in the cradle with a flat tip screwdriver (the screws should basically still have a good deal of tension on the solenoid). If you can move it back and forth by hand it's way too loose. i cant mention any more that this is a very important step and if done wrong you will have to tear the gun down again to restart all over again!!!!

Once you have that set put the gun together (leave off all the non-essential parts I.E. barrel sights hopper etc.). you will want to leave the grips off the frame so you can get around in the frame with the screw driver.

air up the gun as normal. Look at the side of the trigger assembly and see how close that the solenoid pin is to the sear. You do not want the pin sitting on the sear (that's bad). There should be a slight air gap just about 1/16 of an inch between.

What you can do is move the solenoid back and forth and pull the trigger. Sometimes it needs to be adjusted a hair in either direction. You may still need to hold the solenoid with your fingers when you find the sweet spot that makes the gun fire to keep the solenoid from moving out of position and making you start from scratch again.

Once you find the setting carefully tear the gun down and tighten those screws down good. Some red loctite helps too.

You can also have a problem with the on/off pin. Here is what happened to Bill Mills (You can read the entire review at http://www.warpig.com/paintball/tech...ag/index.shtml ):

Self Destruction

Unfortunately, after about 800 shots were fired through it, problems arose. "Hssssssss. Kack! Kack! Hssssssss!" comes close to approximating the sound the 'minimag made when it ceased to function. Disassembly at the staging area revealed the problem. With the Hyperframe and Centerflag on/off installed, the sear was not fully resetting against the bolt. Instead the tip of the sear was catching on the outside edge of the bolt. This was apparent in a ring of small gouges around the bolt. While the 'mag worked through this, it was chipping steel off of the bolt with every shot - until the sear chipped and would no longer catch the bolt properly - ouch!

My personal mantra, when people asking me "what upgrades should I do to my Automag?" is "Never change the internals - that will only lead to problems." My wife has a necklace that is made of nice shiny and colorful aftermarket internal parts - every one of which was removed from an Automag by an AGD service tech - because it was the source of that paintgun's problem. Airgun Designs is very liberal with their warranty support. With their star program their warranties pass 90 days, and at tournaments and big games attended by their techs maintenance work and parts are all without charge. Their one stipulation is that the internals must by Airgun Designs parts. Using the Centerflag on/off a necessity for the Hyperframe violated this.

Granted, I probably could have bribed an AGD tech with a bottle of IBC Root Beer, but since the problem was caused by Centerflag's product, I went to Centerflag. Over the phone, I spoke to Josh Donahue. Josh explained that Centerflag Product's view is that they will take care of problems caused by their products, and provide the support needed to make sure their products work properly. He suggested that since I would be at the Diablo Mardi Gras Open the next weekend, I could simply bring the 'mag to one of their techs there.

In New Orleans, I spoke to Jeff Cardwell, one of Centerflag's techs. Jeff quickly provided a replacement AGD sear and bolt for the 'mag, and sorted through to find the longest on/off pin in his parts stock.

As Centerflag owner Dennis Ashley explained to me, some older 'mags do not have the same part tolerances for how deep the on/off space in the AIR Valve assembly is drilled. This can affect the return of the sear. With a mechanical trigger, there are no problems, as hundredths of an inch difference in movement are not even noticed under the pull of a person's finger. However, with the short throw of Centerflag's low power solenoid, slight variances can cause large problems.

Jeff also advised that if I had problems with the pin he gave me, I could also try using an AGD RT on/off assembly which he supplied. Afterh the tournament, I discovered both the new Centerflag pin, and the RT pin to still had a problem - the sear was damaging the bolt with each shot.

After another call to Josh, he recommended the best course of action would be to send in the 'mag. That way, it could be fully inspected in their workshop, and any necessary adjustments made. Turnaround time at Centerflag Products for the adjustments was prompt, only a couple of days. Saving yet another trip in the UPS truck, Josh brought the Minimag with him, and I was able to pick it up in the Centerflag tech support booth at the NPPL Los Angeles Open (there is a theme here, Centerflag's techs are available at a lot of major events).


Once back home, it's shooting like a champ, and not marring the bolt. Dennis Ashley explained that the solution in this case was using a longer than standard on/off pin for a perfect fit. Some Hyperframe users I have spoken to have reported no installation troubles at all, while some others have reported similar situations to what I experienced, or with needing to change the Automag's power tube spacer, reporting occasional "down the barrel" leakage until that change was made.

[hostage]

The pin is part of the on/off valve. The bolt is located infront of the valve and the sear is the peice that is on the rocker. It has a sear pin that makes contact w/ the trigger, when you pull the trigger it pushes the sear up pushing the on/off pin up and releasing the bolt at the same time.
-Hostage

BTW one of two pins, the on/off pin or the sear pin.