sigh not there yet. (need help please)

**Russ** · 04-27-2003, 11:29 PM

the short spring is for velocity around 250, and will be hardest on the paint, Inversely, the longest spring will be softest on paint.

I suggest starting with the middle spring, and set the velocity to 280. It's important to set the velocity with your LX. Guessing just won't cut it. And poor accuracy has little to with velocity, it's determined by the quality of the paint. Also make sure your barrel is clean, & free of oil.

But your problem sounds like you have bad paint. barrel breaks are bad paint, or a poor fit in the barrel. When you put a ball in the barrel, it shouldn't just roll out, and if you blow through the barrel, the ball should shoot right out.

**ignatz** · 04-28-2003, 10:50 AM

I had this exact same problem. I called AGD. Jon told me to replace the Regulator Piston assembly contained in the regulator half of the valve. Apparently there are two different versions of the piston (HPA and pre-HPA). If you are using HPA and don't have the HPA version, you should upgrade. In my case, I had the proper version but the assembly was just bad. It worked fine with the L7 bolt and spacer, but not with the LX bolt and carrier. I replaced the $20 part and then everything worked like a champ. HTH.

Additionaly, make sure your barrell is using a plastic numbin. The metal ones can break balls if not adjusted properly IMHO. Also your description of multiple balls being fed sounds like a bad nubbin.

**cphilip** · 04-28-2003, 11:22 AM

There are actualy three pistons...

CO2 one
HPA first version one
HPA newer "higher pressure" one.

You want the last one...

But this all sounds still to me like he has a level 10 problem and perhaps a reg seat/on off problem with it. Having more than one problem at the same time can get confusing. I not sure since he fails to tell us what it was crono'd at when he had this middle "leak". That leak needs to be addressed since its not coming from the back where a piston would be suspect.

Tell us more and do you have crono speeds on that first set up? Where you able to get 280 + without it venting out the back?

**tmnothing** · 04-28-2003, 04:19 PM

Maybe I was unclear in explaining but I am only having a problem with my gun leaking from the velocity screw. There are no other leaks. It doesnt leak all the time, about 5 minutes after I gas up it will leak until I take a shot (that's usually hot), then it stops and starts again 2 minutes later.

I dont know what I was chronoed at last week because I dont have access to a chronograph. I'm going to try to get my hands on one in the next couple days. (I asked a kid in one of my classes if his store had one and he just ripped on me for having a mag (they didnt)). I was adjusting my velocity to where I could get it the highest with the paint still flying straight.

I'm going to call AGD tomorrow and ask about the possible Reg.Piston problem and order some plastic nubbins because I think mine are metal.

Also I tested my paint by what was posted here earlier and I'm pretty sure that Big Ball is a good match with my Lapco Bigshot. I had a Bigshot on my last gun and I've been shooting Big Ball for years. I also tested on the stock barrel (minimag stock is large bore it seems) and it matched better.

**Demobilized** · 04-28-2003, 05:35 PM

I had this problem with my brand new reg piston, but i eventually gave up on it and just bought a new one. I would go ahead and call AGD and see what they have to say about it, because i spent plenty of time doing everything i could but to no avail.

**FlipShot** · 04-28-2003, 05:54 PM

now that I know that there are 3 differant types of bolts, is there anyway to tell them apart?? does this only apply to RT valves?

**askman** · 04-28-2003, 05:59 PM

velocity hole leak can be due to O ring failure on piston. If you bought a used mag, replace this O ring. I find that I have to replace this o ring more than any other ones.

Frankly, if you bought an used mag, replace all o rings, it will solve a lot of hassle. then start the LX debug.

**ignatz** · 04-28-2003, 06:00 PM

FlipShot - We're talking about the Regulator Piston assembly. AGD makes 3 different types of Regulator Piston assemblies. AGD makes more than 3 different types of bolts. I can't tell you how the distinguish between the different types. If yours works don't change it.

**FlipShot** · 04-28-2003, 06:10 PM

opps now I sound like a moron, I ment to type reg piston but got confused since my last post was concerning a bolt.

**tmnothing** · 04-28-2003, 10:42 PM

I bought the minimag brand new from www.Paintball-online.com about three weeks ago. That is why I have sort of been dancing around replacing o-rings and at first didnt think the reg piston was at fault. I mean, if it would fix the problem I'd just do it but I dont want to go spend $40 on a reg piston and a set of o-rings since I just bought the gun...

One thing that makes me suspicious though... when I got the gun both elbows (from the VA to the Valve) leaked at the threads and I had to take them off and put on teflon tape. It was no big deal but made me wonder why a brand new gun was leaking.

I'm not saying that I know that the o-rings are not at fault and I know the reg piston is not at fault I just figured there was something else since the gun is pretty new...

**Blazingace** · 04-29-2003, 09:56 AM

I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but here is how it works....

The Lvl 10 kit balances forces. The air pressure VS. the friction of the carrier O-ring and the spring. In order to fire the gun you have to overcome the carrier and spring forces. That is why you have to crank the velocity up. The Reg. piston is doing its job, by venting excess pressure to prevent a really hot shot. Not a normal hot shot like 300 or 320 FPS but a truly hot shot. Some how the reg. is not regulating the pressure properly, hence the inconsistant velocity, hot shots and leaking. The Lvl 10 is just agravating the situation since you have to turn the velocity up so high to get the gun to fire. Look at either the spring stack, the reg. piston or the reg. valve pin. I am running the short spring and the .5 carrier in my E-mag and the Mid spring and the 1.0 carrier in my Retromini. Both are very soft on paint and work well between 260 and 290 FPS.

**ignatz** · 04-29-2003, 11:14 AM

tmnothing - Blazingace is right.

Does the marker work properly when the original bolt is installed? Have you tried different LX carriers and shims, etc.? If so, then the problem is the regulator piston. Think about it, if the regulator piston o-ring were bad, then you'd have a leak with both the original and LX bolts. The spring pack should never need to be replaced according to AGD. Its only puspose it to act as a lock washer of sorts... does it look damaged in anyway? Is it coated in a moderate amount of grease? Does your velocity remain constant when using the original bolt? If so, all is good there too.

When I bought my LX it was the second I'd installed. I had the same problem, but my symptoms were a little different (like, I could make the leak happen by pulling the triger twice quickly). I called AGD after much testing on my part. I didn't want to believe Jon when he said the reg. Piston could be the problem either. I mean, the regulator piston on my marker had been working fine for years (and still works fine without the Level 10 installed). I found one locally with the o-ring for <$16 new (less than AGD. The store hasn't updated their price list in quite some time) and tried it before sending the valve back to AGD and guess what it worked. Look around, a good Pro-Shop will let you try the part before you buy it, at least mine did.

I really hope this helps.

**xen_100** · 04-29-2003, 12:35 PM

to me it sounds like the reg seat is the issue. if it is fine when he shoots it and then after a couple minutes of sitting it starts to vent out the back, then the reg seat is not sealing and it is overcharging the gun (this could also explain the large amount of barrel breaks) I would replace that first and go from there.

one real easy way to tell if the on/off or bolt are the issue. pull and hold the trigger, if it still leaks out the back, the middle and front of the air valve are not the cause.

if it still leaks out the back after the reg seat is replaced, then replace the reg piston. you have to do these things in logical steps or you learn nothing.(not just replacing everything and then seeing that "well one of them fixed it" the next problem you have, you are back to square one because you did no troubleshooting)

**athomas** · 04-29-2003, 03:15 PM

Yep, I'd say replace the regulator seat o-ring. It probably wouldn't hurt to clean the regulator out as well. A piece of dirt could cause problems with leaking.

I doubt it is a problem with the regulator piston since it isn't consistently venting out the back. The regulator piston probably doesn't need to be repalced.

The balls breaking in the barrel could be caused by your nubbins. If you are using metal nubbins, try switching to plactic. If you are using the plastic nubbins, check how far they protrude into the barrel. If they sit deep and stiff, file a little off the back knob facing away from the outside of the barrel. This knob determines the depth of the nubbins, and depending on the nubbin groove depth of the barrel could be the culprit.

sigh not there yet. (need help please)