scuba tanks

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  • akscubainst
    Member
    • Sep 2002
    • 67

    #31
    Fill nipples:

    If you look at Hydraulic fitting catalogs, Brass is only rated to 3000psi, carbon steel to 5000psi, and stainless can be much higher like 10,000psi. Technically, the prudent thing would be to use stainless for the added safety factor.

    Most of the other hoses and lines people are using are downstream of the bottle regulator so they are only subject to about 800psi.

    Can somebody please explain to me why SCUBA tank volume here in the US.....

    Because in the US we like to do things our way. Some figured out how much air we stuffed into a cylinder and called it an 80. We don't like to change and we like to picture things in feet and inches. Doing things in BAR is like using the metric system we don't do it.

    Why would you want to buy a converter and not a DIN unit in the first place:

    You could certinally buy a reg setup for DIN from the factory and the price is usually the same as a yoke type. But given that most of the tanks in the US are yoke, as a diver you would want an adapter to go back to yoke for the flexability. Most charter boats and travel destinations don't offer DIN tanks.

    Given that most SCUBA shops seem to charge between $4-5 per fill, I'd imagine that there is enough of a margin in there to pay for the higher costs:

    Let me see $4.00 per fill, 10-12min compressor time at 220V/AC, $1.00 per hour for the filter, Labor, maintenance, loan payment, the list goes on and on. 30 SCUBA fills per week (small operation) that's $480 gross per month. No, there's not much margin in the cost of air fills. I'm lucky to break even. It's the sales made while the customer is in the store that cover the expenses and make the profit.
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    • eisenhans
      Registered User
      • May 2003
      • 7

      #32
      Originally posted by Hellaspaint shortened
      They are from Stainless Steel with a gauge at 4500psi.
      It should of course be gauge rated for this kind of pressure and most of these will go up to 6000 psi. The 4.5-5000psi gauges (especially of the mini type) many manufacturers put on HPA systems and almost all fillstations are intended/rated for working pressures of, say, 3000 psi.

      SCUBA divers learn to point the pressure gauges of their tanks away when they gas up, paintballers should too.

      Regards,

      eisenhans

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      • eisenhans
        Registered User
        • May 2003
        • 7

        #33
        Originally posted by akscubainst shortened
        Fill nipples:

        If you look at Hydraulic fitting catalogs, Brass is only rated to 3000psi, carbon steel to 5000psi, and stainless can be much higher like 10,000psi. Technically, the prudent thing would be to use stainless for the added safety factor.



        Well, all mine are stainless steel of course ;-)


        Most of the other hoses and lines people are using are downstream of the bottle regulator so they are only subject to about 800psi.
        The older style Macro/Microline fittings are certified for 300 or 500 psi respectively.


        Because in the US we like to do things our way..... Doing things in BAR is like using the metric system we don't do it.
        You sure do like the imperial system ;-)
        I'd just didn't realize you also liked to be inconsistent:

        SCUBA tanks = measured in volume of uncompressed gas

        all other HP containers = measured in volume of the empty tank

        SCNR:
        "If God had wanted us to use the metric system, he would given us ten fingers."

        "You honestly want us to use a system invented by the French?"



        Why would you want to buy a converter and not a DIN unit in the first place:

        You could certinally buy a reg setup for DIN from the factory and the price is usually the same as a yoke type. But given that most of the tanks in the US are yoke, as a diver you would want an adapter to go back to yoke for the flexability. Most charter boats and travel destinations don't offer DIN tanks.
        Ok. I interpreted your original post to mean: buy an A clamp reg and have it converted and then by an adapter ...

        You could of course simply have an adapter for the filling part (male A-clamp and male DIN).


        Given that most SCUBA shops seem to charge between $4-5 per fill, I'd imagine that there is enough of a margin in there to pay for the higher costs:

        Let me see $4.00 per fill, 10-12min compressor time at 220V/AC, $1.00 per hour for the filter, Labor, maintenance, loan payment, the list goes on and on. 30 SCUBA fills per week (small operation) that's $480 gross per month. No, there's not much margin in the cost of air fills. I'm lucky to break even. It's the sales made while the customer is in the store that cover the expenses and make the profit.
        My local dive shop claims to be able to fill a 3000 psi tank for about $0.60 and charges also $4. Which is why he is quite happy to give folks who buy a $139 tank from him vouchers for 36 free fills.
        Admittedly, his operation is rather larger (more like 30 fills a day)


        Have a nice day,

        eisenhans

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        • Frank (the spank)
          Registered User
          • Apr 2003
          • 375

          #34
          Damn this thread has some good info!

          I have a scuba tank on order, so the scuba shop gave me a rental until it gets here along with free fills. :)

          I used it for the first time this last saturday, man... it was great! 5 minutes from when the UPS driver dropped off my fill station I filled my first tank. I played all day saturday and it was so easy in between games to run to my Blazer and fill my tank while it was on my gun.

          I have a question about filling my tank. When I do a fill, I slowly open the valve and let it hiss into my tank as slow as I can, takes a full minute until I reach 3000psi. But... my tank is still hot! Should I fill it 1000psi at a time and wait maybe a minute in between so I don't heat the tank up too much? I have a new Flatline 4500 that cost me almost $400.. it WILL last me FOREVER, lol

          Any tips would be great.
          My cats bum rises when I pet it.

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          • nippinout
            FUSP
            • Jan 2002
            • 1231

            #35
            When you fill, use the fill tank's gauges. They are usually more accurate than the ones on our paintball tanks.

            I fill my tank to about 3000psi. I let the tank cool for about 5 minutes and then top it off again.

            The field I used to go to filled my tank to about 3500psi. When I asked them to top it off, they told me it would cool down to 3000psi. When I learned he over-filled my tank I was pissed off they would do such a thing.

            Safety first!

            Isn't it fun being able to use more than one tank of gas without having to drive to the paintball shop?
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            • openboater
              Registered User
              • Jul 2001
              • 288

              #36
              My new scuba's cost $149 with 10 free fills. Fill card is $40 for 10 fills. $5 for a single fill. A new AL80 is rated for a 10% overfill so my SCUBA shop will fill to 3200.

              Cost for yearly visual inspection is $19.95, which includes a free fill.

              4 of us cascade off 4 scuba's and have fills of 2900 at the end of 4-5 hours of play, and 4-5 cases of paint.

              Oh Yea, don't forget to buy the cute little plastic net protector and base for the tank.

              I wouldn't buy a used tank unless it is real cheap. When you figure in the added costs of visuals and hydro's and the goodwill you get from your dealer for buying his tank, you're farther ahead buying new from a dealer.

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              • hitech
                Not a shedder of vortices
                • Nov 2001
                • 4775

                #37
                I don't fill any slower than that (probably faster) and my tank doesn't get hot (not even warm). That doesn't sound right. Is the scuba tank hot?


                Hey Hitech your starting to sound like me! - AGD
                Hitech is the man.... :eek: - Blennidae
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                • xen_100
                  super-uber spyder tech
                  • Oct 2002
                  • 1203

                  #38
                  what do you mean by "hot"? it is really warm (like it burns you?) or just 10 degrees or so warmer? when you compress air it is going to get warmer. but unless it is getting the tank really warm (like 150 degrees or something) dont worry about it.

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                  • akscubainst
                    Member
                    • Sep 2002
                    • 67

                    #39
                    Fill Speed

                    Bill High is the formost authority on cylinders both SCUBA and SCBA. Here's his take on fill speed. If you look at his site you will also find a generic liability release for dive shops to use for paintball fills.

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                    • hitech
                      Not a shedder of vortices
                      • Nov 2001
                      • 4775

                      #40
                      I read the paintball release and was just curious. Why couldn't you loan your tank to someone to use to dive with?


                      Hey Hitech your starting to sound like me! - AGD
                      Hitech is the man.... :eek: - Blennidae
                      The only Hitech Lubricant

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                      • greenkill
                        Registered User
                        • Apr 2003
                        • 98

                        #41
                        Probably safety issues. You don't want to be underwater relying your life on a tank that has been banged around by paintball usage and stuff.. iono thats the only thing i could come up wiht.

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                        • akscubainst
                          Member
                          • Sep 2002
                          • 67

                          #42
                          By signing it your saying that the fill you are buying is for Paintball. If someone who's certified wants to use it they would bring it in and buy a fill for diving.

                          It's not that you can't loan it out, but by signing the release, you're responsible if some idiot goes out and drowns with it. It takes the liability off the shop.

                          The one thing that is so difficult with owning a dive shop is the liability. We're about to get our annual insurance bill it'll be about $5,000.

                          I started teaching a basic SCUBA class last night. The first hour is pretty much taken up by paperwork to release liability.

                          Welcome to our sue happy society.
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                          http://www.thescubatank.com

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                          • kdawg
                            Registered User
                            • Nov 2002
                            • 296

                            #43
                            I run 2-80cf tanks connected by a yoke crossover and one scuba-paintball fill station. Nice, because I don't have to take off the tank and go to the next tank. I just have to turn one valve-fill a little(close valve), open other valve and top off. Nice way to cascade.

                            Local scuba shop charges $25 for 10 fill card (2.50 a fill) can't beat that really. Funny thing, they ask if it is for paintball or diving. No difference, just have to see a card if diving. No signing of waivers or anything if for paintball--so what's the point of asking? Thought that was funny.
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                            • hitech
                              Not a shedder of vortices
                              • Nov 2001
                              • 4775

                              #44
                              Originally posted by kdawg
                              I run 2-80cf tanks connected by a yoke crossover and one scuba-paintball fill station.

                              Funny thing, they ask if it is for paintball or diving...No signing of waivers or anything if for paintball--so what's the point of asking?
                              Same here. "We" have a yoke crossover also. And the dive shop where I fill my tanks also doesn't require any waivers. 90% of their fills are for paintball. He stocks alum. tanks just for paintball. They are just down the street from Delta.


                              Hey Hitech your starting to sound like me! - AGD
                              Hitech is the man.... :eek: - Blennidae
                              The only Hitech Lubricant

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                              • madmatt151
                                Registered User
                                • Oct 2002
                                • 764

                                #45
                                Cascading....

                                Is there a way to get a 4500 fill from cascading 3000 scuba tanks? Is it possible?
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