[Guide] BlackVCG's ULT Thread

[BlackVCG]

First of all, this is a thread dedicated to the installation, tuning and operation of the Ultra Light Trigger (ULT) for AGD products. This can be purchased at www.store.airgun.com

This on/off assembly will fit and is recommended for the following:

X-Valves
Aluminum RT-Pro Valves

This on/off assembly can fit but is NOT recommended for the following:

E-Mags w/ double o-ring top
Micro E-Mags
MiniMag AIR Valves
68Automag Valves
Classic Automag Valves
HyperMags
SmartMags

This on/off assembly will NOT fit the following:

Stainless Steel RT-Pro Valves
Retro Valves
E-Mags w/ single o-ring top
Original RTs w/ Banjo Bolt valve

Here are some pictures of the on/off hole in various valves to show the difference between single o-ring and double o-ring.

E-Mag Valve with double o-rings. (Note the black quad o-ring which is special to the E-Mag only)



Retro Valve with single o-ring. This valve will NOT accept the ULT.



X-Valve. All of these valves have double o-rings and they are now coming installed on new RT-Pros. Both o-rings are removed from the valve, but you can see that the bottom does not have a step in it like Retro Valve. The gray spot at the bottom is just an unanodized spot.



Here is the Classic AIR valve. The same valve used in Automags, Minimags, etc. This valve has always and will always be a double o-ring valve and will accept the ULT, but it is not recommended for use in the this valve. It does not recharge fast enough and thus it is too easy to short stroke.



Sorry about the valve picture quality. It's hard to get in close and get a sharp picture and get enough light on it to show the inside of the on/off without making too much glare.

ULT Exploded Parts View



From left to right:

On/Off top o-ring (Same o-ring as on/off center o-ring for RT on/off assembly)

On/Off top w/ o-ring. (O-ring is same as Level 7 PT o-ring and on/off top outer o-ring in double o-ring valves.)

On/Off center o-ring. (New part for ULT. Rubber o-ring, not urethane. Very small, do not lose.)

Shims for adjusting sealing point of on/off top o-ring. (Same dimensions as Level 10 shims, but .005" thick instead of .010")

On/Off bottom w/ o-ring. (Same o-ring as on/off top outer o-ring)

On/Off pin support. (Install after on/off assembly is screwed together. Place grease around outside before inserting into on/off bottom to keep from falling out.)

On/Off Pin. (Very fragile. Take special care when installing. Install so larger diameter head is at top of on/off assembly.)

Videos

These are some videos of me shooting the ULT on my XRTP. This is pretty much the first time I got out and shot the thing, so I'm pretty slow. I am wearing safety glasses, if you can't tell. Sorry about the extra time in the video of me turning on and off the camera. I was the only one around when I took these videos. Also, sorry about the plane flying overhead in the first video. Didn't even notice it was there until after I filmed the clip. At least I can fan the trigger now...

Right click on the links and save them to your computer.

http://www.automags.org/~BlackVCG/DCP_0942.MOV

http://www.automags.org/~BlackVCG/DCP_0006.MOV

[Bad_Knees]

If a SS retro valve is drilled out?

Black,

if the SS Retro valves get drilled out to accept two o-rings will it work? Since this was not stated in your original post. Thanks!

BK

[BlackVCG]

Any RT valve with single o-rings that is drilled for double o-rings will work perfectly fine as long as it's done PROPERLY.

I will not be drilling any valves for anyone, so please don't ask. There will be other people offering this service, but AGD isn't going to warranty their work.

[Bad_Knees]

Thanks!

Just wanted some clarification...better now that after the 20th time being asked about it

[BlackVCG]

Anything else I need to add, guys? You name it and I'll try to do it. Installation video I'd like to do, but we'll see if that's possible... I just have a digital camera that can take video, so setting it up to take a video of me installing the ULT will pose a challenge...

[Bad_Knees]

Installation Pics

Of course Jeff aka PBDaddy has put some up there so maybe if you could do the same it would be helpful. Thanks!

BK

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

on/off support

Could someone please elaborate in detail how we should be connecting the on/off pin and the support and inserting them, step by step? I have seen posts referring to loc-tite and grease being used and that we have to connect them after the pin is inserted in the on/off assembly and general instructions . Does this mean that once you've inserted the pin, and sealed the pin support to it on the other side of the on/off bottom, the two can never be seperated or taken out of the on/off assembly? I get mine today and don't want to make a huge mistake and if I'm correct in that by sealing the support to the pin it doesn't let the pn be removed from that point on. what happenes if it does get bent taking it out later on (adjusting shims when gets a new grip, rail, etc)? Can't wait to do this, just don't want to goof it up and not be able to play Saturday

[BlackVCG]

The pin support just needs to slide into the bottom of the on/off and stay in there when you insert it into the gun. Once it's all gassed up it's "locked" inbetween the pin and the sear.

The reason loctiting it has been mentioned is to keep you from having to turn the valve upside down to keep the pin in place when you insert it into the gun. The problem with this is, you'll have to break the loctite loose if you need to disassemble it.

The only purpose of loctiting it is to keep it from falling out and I figure you can accomplish the same thing by putting a bit of grease on the pin support. Even some oil should have enough viscosity to keep it from falling out. Loctiting it is a stupid idea and only going to cause people headaches because they don't know how to properly use loctite or because they won't know how to get it apart without breaking the thing.

[personman]

I have a question.
When I got my .750 pin in the mail for my regular on/off, it wouldnt work until I shaved it down (I dont know what its at right now, I dont have any calipers) but it works perfectly if I shaved it down just enough..
I ordered the ULT, will it be true for this? Will I have to shave it down?
Also, I have a quad oring in my XValve.. I dont know if that normal or not, or if brad just put it in when he was installing it because it was going to go on my micro e-mag.. but I sold that and kept my X-Valve..

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

thanks

Thanks BlackVCG, exactly what I needed to know. So no loctite, cool. I'll try autolube and just take it real easy putting the valve on the rail so I don't bend the pin. I can't wait!

Oh yeah, quick followup: how many shims worked for you, and is there any benefit to using lvl 10 shims, like that if they are closer to .11 they can get the hysteresis closer than just using ULE trigger shims? With too many it'll just go into mad runaway right?

[Dayspring]

Remember. Using the shims can have the same effect as shaving the pin or using a shorter/longer on/off pin.

You are changing the point at which the pin will seat in the oring. The more shims you add, in effect, it makes the on/off pin "shorter."

Taking shims out will in effect be like having a "longer" on/off pin in.

And all this is accomplished with the pin staying the same length.

[speeddemon]

So basically put as many shims as possible into it while it still shoots and doesnt runaway right?

[Halliday]

Originally posted by BlackVCG
Any RT valve with single o-rings that is drilled for double o-rings will work perfectly fine as long as it's done PROPERLY.

Good to know. What about this situation. Say I have a Retro valve drilled out for the 2 o-rings, try the ULT and don't like it. What o-rings would I use with this drilled-out, non-ULT Retro valve?

[BlackVCG]

Dayspring explained the shims well.

Keep installing the shims until it has too much bounce. If you don't have enough shims, it will be too easy to shortstroke. Add one shim at a time until you like how the trigger is. The maximum number of shims you can use is six. The kit comes with two installed and three extra.

I don't think there will be any problems with bending the pin. The pin support is larger than the AIR valve on/off pin in diameter and even if it catches on the hole in the mainbody, it doesn't have enough play in it to bend the on/off pin. Just make sure it's all the way in the hole before you slide the valve into the mainbody.

Halliday- You can use the o-ring that is on the outside of the on/off top or the on/off bottom of the ULT. It's also the same o-ring as the powertube o-ring for Level 7. That o-ring combined with the old on/off top smaller o-ring you removed before you put in the ULT is what you'll need.

Personman- You will remove all parts from your valve, including the quad o-ring. Don't worry about what you have in there now. As Dayspring told you, the shims will compensate for having to shave the pin.

[Jerhew]

Black, some people have mentioned some extra play in the trigger now...what's your opinion on trigger stops(i won't mention anything about trigger rod length)
just trying to get as much info as possible before my ult comes in tomarrow

great thread btw
you're always the one i think of when i have a tech question
(other than than Tom himself of course)
keep up the good work