Cocker vs. Mag

[Steelrat]

Personally, I think that the air pressure striking the ball causes very few breaks. Primary culprit for ball breaks has been, and will continue to be, the bolt.

Both the cocker and the mag can be modified to pinch (or in the level 10 case, rebound) from paint.

[afrankart]

I don't know, but I could imagine that if you wanted, you could release upwards of 1000 psi directly to the ball in a barrel (if only there was a way) and you would not have any breaks. 99.99999999999% of the time, chops are caused by a solid moving object, not air. Another one I am not completely sure about is the ICE Epic. It doesen't have a bolt to propel the ball, so it uses only air. Since it doesen't have a bolt, I would assume that it exerts a WHOLE LOT more pressure on the ball to accelerate it to 300 fps than any cocker or mag.

[11_Mile_TMaster]

Well, the reason being... Yes, there is as much as 650PSI in the dump chamber.... but you have to consider the fact that that is IN THE DUMP CHAMBER. As the bolt moves forward, the air inside the chamber has to go out over a greater volume, thus, the pressure is lower the further the bolt moves down the breech, until we hit that magic point where the "Tuned power pulse" occours (The point where the air is actually fired against the bolt.

Wow, I almost sounded smart.

But that's accurate. Aaaaaaaaanyway, Any ball breaks I've had so far were due to my barrel being too small for the paint. I mean, I had chuffing problems up the wazoo, and I was like "What the hell."
Took my barrel off... there was paint lodged in there. Tried to push it out... it broke inside. Barrel was simply too tight for the paint.

[Lemon]

Iiiinteresting....

If the only chopping problem is the barrel, I guess I have nothing to worry about cuz i will be using a pro technique; using a .700 bore All American front witha .693 insert in a freak back. Ultimate anti-chopping barrel.

Pros care less about accuracy/efficiency than having a lower chance of a ball breaking in the barrel.

I also read that the LX bolt has rounded edges and only moves at around 15fps when it 'hits' the ball. So ya. MAG PROJECT CONTINUES.

-B.

[PyRo]

The pressure the gun runs at doesn't have much to do with chopping balls to start with anyway. My old pro-carbine almost never chopped :)

[Lemon]

I wasn't talking about chopping balls, that is something else. I was talking about the sudden burst of air cracking the ball in the chamber.

[ZyperioN]

ok well becuase nobody seems to want to answer your question about pressure the balls actually sees:

(this are from memory so give or take a few psi but they are fairly right on)

There was a test on this topic and the results showed:
Matrix~50psi
AUTOMAG~65psi
Impulse~80 psi
Cocker~90psi
Angel~120psi

[�?�� �m���]

Its a Freaking Level 10 dam straight your not gonna break balls, so air pressure dosent really matter all that much sorta, unless your using like really really really really crappy paint such as brass eagle, which relates to only not even pass the 1 bounce test, use a little higher grade paint that wont break from airpressure. Check your barrel for any nicks of kinks, these could cause some breaks in the barrel related to the air pressure

[Lemon]

Right now, my breath smells like I ate a cat turd.

In other news, Lemon can't see why someone would own a marker other than a Matrix or a Mag providing the mag has a LX bolt. He would also be using either Marbs or Evil paint.

However, he is curious if the various valves, E-Mag, MM, RT, etc... have any constructional differences other than quality and materials used for the housing.

[Lemon]

*brushes teeth*

That wasn't what I was wondering...

I was playing on consistency.

Would a preset tank set at 750psi give better consistency than a 1000psi tank?

[afrankart]

With a classic valve, no. With an RT or X-valve, there would be a difference. @ 750 psi, if you shoot slowly, you will be consistant, but if you shoot a fast string, you will have a greater chance of a little velocity dropoff. @1000 psi, slow shots will have less velocity than those in a fast string. I wouldn't say that that is inconsistency, rather a function of the RT/X-valve.

[Lemon]

Run that by me again.

The faster you shoot, the more velocity the shots will have?
Is that a function or a flaw?

Sorry for misunderstanding.

[afrankart]

That is a function. There is more info if you go to www.arigun.com and scroll down to the Proper chrono procedure for RT valve. There is tons of info there.

[AkumA]

*haven't been reading everyones responces...*

on my cocker, i have all high flow parts. while having the inline reg set to somewhere around 300psi. now how much psi does the ball see? it depends. the bolt psi is controled by the LPR. you can have either 55psi to 300psi. so you need to tune it just right, messing around with the reg and the LPR. similar to a matrix.

if you're worried about efficiency, get a cocker. if you don't want to chop balls because your finger is a stupid (short stroking), go with a mag that has a lvl10 installed.

[Lemon]

Nah efficiency is pointless to worry about.

It's moreso a durable, consistant, accurate, and for the most part, problem free (no chops/barrel breaks) marker that I am looking to build.

I couldn't find any info regadring this 'fuction' of the RT valve(s). Could someone explain why the velocity would increase as your ROF goes up?

Thx