Okay now I know why people hate these things...

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  • Chestercopperpot
    Registered User
    • Nov 2003
    • 35

    #1

    Okay now I know why people hate these things...

    Mods: I'm not sure where this should go. I put it here because it more of a complaint against AGD than a technical question. Move if you wish.

    I jumped onto the mag bandwagon about a two weeks ago, mainly because of the positive coments found on this board. I have been playing for a while. Perviously I have ownwed a tippmann, which was rock solid reliable, and a cocker which very occainsionally would go down, but the problems were always quite easy to fix (maybe I would miss one hour to fix a leaky three way). When I first got my mag it was HEAVEN. I couldn't belive it. A brand new ULE custom straight from the factory. Looked great shot great, the velocity was right where I needed it. And best of all it never choped, a had a ball burst occainsionally , but chopping was a thing of the past. I couldn't believe that everybody wasn't raving about these things. That lasted for about one half day of play (1000 balls). At first the problems were minimal, a bit of bolt stick, the occasional double fire, etc. A pretty broad range of symptoms. Then the trigger started cutting out. Then lots of leaking down the barrel. All these problems started to manifest within 500 rounds. No warning it would just stop working. So I take the marker and go down a carrier on the LX. I leave it with three shims in there (as it came from the factory) which seemed like a lot, but whatever. It starts firing again (no more leaking down the barrel), but now its super duper reactive. Impossible to fire just one shot. So its time to work on the ULT. I open up the ULT and find that the boys at AGD had left a whopping 6 shims in the ULT! So I knock that slowly down to 2. Now, its problem city again. The bolt will no longer work with the medium spring. It will fire like three shots and then cut out. And when I go back down to the stock bolt its better, but still bolt stick city! Half the time the lx works its stops the trigger from working. I give up. I have now gone back to my paintball store twice just to get my tank filled so I can try and tune this puppy. I've gone from heaven to hell.

    From a technical standpoint it is by far the most complicated marker I have ever seen. The tolerances for the ULT (judging by the shims) seems to be on the order of one hundreth of an inch. With tolerances that tight Mr. Kaye's engineers should have realized that reliability would very likly be sacrificed. I am not a techy kind of guy. My VCR is not programed. I just want a marker that shoots well, and doesn't break balls or down. Furthermore, I don't understand is why there wasn't pages upon pages of documentation for this mag. I don't care if it looks like it was printed on a home copier on cheap paper, as long as its LONg and Thourough. All that came with it was a outdated SHORT manual, a tiny 3 inch by three inch sheet for the ULT and a square CD-Room for the LX that jams my CD-rom drive every time I insert it. I mean I wasn't even told how to remove the x-valve in the manual. I spent a while before I figured out you need to pull the trigger before removing the valve. How the hell was I supoosed to know that? I had to figure out how to udjust the shims on my ULT by myself. I spent a while trying to pull the thing in two before I relized that you have to unscrew it. I guess I shouldn't rag on AGD too hard, because I have yet to call up tech service. If they treat me well I will post a public apology. But still, this marker just seems like a unsolvable puzzle. I fix one aspect and a new problem pops up. And worst of all the two systems, trigger and bolt, seem to affect on another. So while your busy adjusting one, the other that was tuned gets thrown out of wack.

    Look I know I'm gonna get flamed to hell and back for criticizing a marker everyone loves. But I when I called up AGD to order the thing, I told them I was technically challenged. I mean I really emphasized this. They assured me that everything would be set up for me at the factory, and the only I would need to do to keep the thing working was add some oil at the end of a days play. I wouldn't be so upset if they had just been honest with me: that with ULT and LX this is an extremely complex marker, and somewhat less than reliable unless you luck out and its set up perfect.
  • LittlePaintballBoy

    #2
    For the bolt stick change LX springs... seemed to work for me at least...

    Comment

    • tyrion2323
      Euroball=goodness
      • Dec 2002
      • 1654

      #3
      Hrmm - that's very odd! I've heard of such problems, and even experienced a few, but a NIB ULE Custom? It should be working fine! I wish I had something to say, but I can only assure you that Mags are extremely reliable. Now, it's possible that you got a lemon, but I implore you: don't judge it quite yet! Let's see about getting everything worked out before! There are some great dealers and people on these forums (Tunaman, Rogue, etc) and I'm SURE that if you can't fix it at home, someone will help you out by fixing it for you!

      [Edit] To remove the xValve, look at the bottom of the marker. Notice that, at the back of the gripframe (where your thumb might be) you'll see a large screw that'll take an allen wrench (I THINK it's an allen wrench). All you have to do is unscrew that, and the valve will pop right out. Make sure to disconnect your hose/macroline before doing this, of course! That's all you need!

      Jacob
      My AIM Intimidator is better than your Automag. Get over it.
      Hobart Paintball AIM Paintball

      Comment

      • gtrsi
        Automag?
        • Dec 2001
        • 5786

        #4
        quick Q what tank are you using?


        Keep in mind that once it is broken in you will probally never going to have to touch it again.... period! Also keep in mind that the mag you are currently holding is probally one of the most advanced mech guns on the planet. Now I know that seems kinda hard to believe in your current state but trust it is just that good.

        you have 2 options
        1. you can give us the dl on what your current settings are, and I mean everything
        2. or you can wait to call AGD. Up to you bud however AO is here to help, and we all have AIM...
        FOR SALE
        on/off, sear, PROConnect
        AGD back bottle asa, laser logo

        Comment

        • p8ntball1016

          #5
          He won't have to call AGD. Tom responds to problems personally here.

          Comment

          • 11_Mile_TMaster
            Registered User
            • Dec 2002
            • 230

            #6
            I'm going to say this...

            AGD should really have a warning about the ULT with the RT Pro Custom, Because Tuning is a must. I mean, Hell, I could have sworn that my ULT 'broke in,' because my reactivity started lowering and I had to add a shim when I first started with it.

            I'll also say that the LX CAN be complex. But, most of the time, it's a very easy thing to set up. I had to do almost no tuning to my Level ten setup (Lower the carrier size after some paint,) But that was it. The Level ten on my classic seems to be behaving the same way as my other. My friend who convinced me to buy an RT Hasn't even had to change his carrier, and he's had his gun longer than I have.

            By the by, If/when you call, ask about the RT Video. The RT Video Explains how to properly disassemble your marker... Including removing the valve. I got one with my RT Pro, maybe some sort of mixup happened and you didn't get it. I would reccomend checking and finding out what happened with that.

            As for the bolt locking up, perhaps try moving it down to two shims?
            Automag RT-Pro
            68 Classic
            BE 1999 Rainmaker
            PMI Trracer
            So many guns, So little time.

            Comment

            • Beemer
              I could tell you but then.

              • Oct 2003
              • 3250

              #7
              its all here

              Heres the link to tune the bolt. All the rest ya need is here to, vids and manuals and all of AO to help.

              You Got a Race gun ya just gotta tune a little.
              It gets good after a little break in.


              Comment

              • M-a-s-sDriver
                Alcohol Fueled Brewtality
                • Jun 2001
                • 552

                #8
                Just hang in there...you should NOT get flamed.
                You do bring up a good point though...documentation.
                I never really thought about instructions before, having had Mags' in one form or another for about 9 or 10 years now.
                I have a dumb question for you: Did you run HP air only, or try co2? Remember, Rt's run on HP only.
                Anytime I have to fix someone's Mag, 99% of the time oil will do the trick. Just put a drop of oil on everything, and it should scream.
                As for bolt stick, if your barrel is TOO EFFICIENT, you may have to go the smaller spring. SP freaks, Dye 14", old AA's work great. Pipe's, Palmer's, Felons, They are just too good.
                Try these for fixes.
                Brent.
                I don't practice anymore: I'm just good in a natural, vicious sort of way.

                Will you please tell your boobs to quit staring at my eyeballs?

                Comment

                • wobbles82
                  To The 5
                  • Jan 2003
                  • 604

                  #9
                  Sorry bout your problems with the ULE Custom, I had them too but AO IS the manual, heh. They definately should come with fore-warnings, and a bit of better manuals, especially concerning the ULT. As for the ULT..I used 6 shims, I dont think the techs were trying to be whopping, I loaded mine man. Dont forget to also USE that oil that they give you, like said before, its amazing what it can do. Also, as far as the gun stopping, does the trigger just dead stop but the gun is still aired up? If so, I noticed I sorta had a break in period for my mag, and also noticed a different spring stopped this trigger stoppage. If you can actually squeeze the trigger but get no shooting, work with the shims on that ULT. It really is confusing to get this ULT down, the Level Ten is easy, the ULT is quite tough. Keep at it bro!
                  2 da k da 2 Timmah.

                  Oh..it shoots da 620:1 .No problemo.

                  Comment

                  • adam shannon
                    Registered User
                    • Oct 2002
                    • 805

                    #10
                    Originally posted by gtrsi



                    Keep in mind that once it is broken in you will probally never going to have to touch it again.... period!
                    now thats budweiser true! you may have to tweak this and that for the first few thousand shots...and yeah it takes a few tanks of air to do this twaeking. but once its broken in and everything has settled into place it will give you years of solid no problem play. 3 drops of oil and a new o-ring or bumper now and then, no problems.

                    you must bear in mind that the mag is the most solid, and now most complex mech marker out there with the ult and LX. this much mechanical complexity does take a little time to break in...it does take a small amount of patience at first to learn to understand your mag and why it does what it does when it needs tuned...but once you get it youll realize what the symptoms are for problems and how to dial it in perfect once and for all.

                    and no, you shouldnt get flamed for your post. well articulated legitimate complaints deserve good answers...its the ignorant haters that deserve to get flamed.

                    and since your in NYC, if you want to learn that mag in and out slip over the river to jersey some time and see any of the mag fanatics over there, any weekend you can play with any of close to 50 mag players from ao in jersey...and if you really want to learn that marker see tunaman. mel at pbx in jersey city can hook you up too. and any of the guys from blackcell could straighten you out also.
                    Last edited by adam shannon; 01-10-2004, 10:14 PM.
                    "whoever did that in the bathroom needs to start eating right and go see a doctor" - Tunaman, AOSC 2

                    "back in the day of pumps this would have taken all @!#$ing afternoon" - Albinonewt , "Treatise On Welts"; chapter 2: The Electro Revolution

                    Comment

                    • cphilip
                      Former Moderator

                      • Jun 2026
                      • 16216

                      #11
                      LOL! Copper calm down now. This is easy.

                      First of all 6 shims in the ULT is prolly OK. Many use that setting

                      The issue here is this is your first time with a mag and you decided to start with the MOST complicated set up of them all in a Mag. And you have no experience with them. If you had any experience all this would be so natural to you that you would already be running. But now you have already started changing things. And in fact you most likely just needed to oil and shoot a bit before you did that.

                      I tell ya what. You send it to me and I will fix it for you. Or better yet closer to you is Tunaman in New Jersey and he will do the same. Whatever you need we will do.

                      BUT !!!! if you really want to learn then your in the right place and it really IS better if you learn yourself. It will stick with you forever and you will know exactly what to do when and if you ever need to again.

                      A peice of advice. Do not do too many things BEFORE you seek help your first time. It makes it difficult for us to figure out where you are at that point. Trust me... once you understand the Mag its the simplest thing in the world to fix and tune. And its stable as heck once its set up.

                      Want some help? We will!


                      AGD, where we are so good we can do it with only ONE tube!

                      cphilip.com

                      Comment

                      • Chestercopperpot
                        Registered User
                        • Nov 2003
                        • 35

                        #12
                        Okay thanks everyone for being supportive rather than angry. I'm not saying that AGD makes a bad product. The gun itself feels really well made. Most quality items just have certain feel to them, and the ULE custom definately has that feel. Still though I don't think my marker was set up that well at the factory. Maybe someone fell asleep at the proverbial switch.

                        It's nice to know that once I do get it right it will work nice. Definitely something to shoot for. Still bolt stick is awful. Without taking off the hopper there is no way to fix it mid game. You're basically cannon fodder. You can't even shoot air!

                        Also one quick suggestion for Mr. Kaye: get rid of the sight rail. Ugh. It feels cheap, in contrast to the rest of the marker, and has plenty of sharp edges to cut little kid's fingers on. Instead how about a quick disconnect for the valve. That way I could work on the problem a LOT easier.

                        Anyway I didn't want to make this a tech question (wrong forum) but since a few people have been asking...

                        I have X-valve, LX, and ULT.

                        My problem is basically that if I get a ball caught in the LX the bolt only resets half the time. The other half of the time the trigger stops working (that what I am discribing when I say bolt stick) Also the LX is pretty rough on paint with the small spring. I would NOT stick my toungue in there (kinda hurts my finger).

                        I am using the shortest spring I got. Middle (red) spring makes the bolt stick somewhat more and The big silver spring doesn't work at all. I have to really crank my velocity to get the red one to work (about 1 and a half turns out from all the way up).

                        I have two shims in my ULT its a little reactive but wont go into runaway. It feels pretty good.

                        I have two LX shims and four ULT shims in my power tube. (i'm using the ULT shims because I crushed a lot of LX shims by accident)

                        I am using the 1 carrier. 2 leaked like crazy (and changed pitch when I pushed on the bolt) and 1.5 leaked a little bit. .5 made the problem with the bolt not resetting worse.

                        When I pull the trigger back all the way and hold it there is a tiny leak that quickly stops (maybe two seconds long)

                        P.S. I used a lot of oil in the gun (autolube) and I promise I didn't touch the thing until it really started having problems. Trust me opening up the mag was something I didn't want to do.
                        Last edited by Chestercopperpot; 01-10-2004, 10:50 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Digits
                          Canuckle
                          • Feb 2003
                          • 1329

                          #13
                          Re: Okay now I know why people hate these things...

                          Originally posted by Chestercopperpot
                          Mods: I'm not sure where this should go. I put it here because it more of a complaint against AGD than a technical question. Move if you wish.

                          I jumped onto the mag bandwagon about a two weeks ago, mainly because of the positive coments found on this board. I have been playing for a while. Perviously I have ownwed a tippmann, which was rock solid reliable, and a cocker which very occainsionally would go down, but the problems were always quite easy to fix (maybe I would miss one hour to fix a leaky three way). When I first got my mag it was HEAVEN. I couldn't belive it. A brand new ULE custom straight from the factory. Looked great shot great, the velocity was right where I needed it. And best of all it never choped, a had a ball burst occainsionally , but chopping was a thing of the past. I couldn't believe that everybody wasn't raving about these things. That lasted for about one half day of play (1000 balls). At first the problems were minimal, a bit of bolt stick, the occasional double fire, etc. A pretty broad range of symptoms. Then the trigger started cutting out. Then lots of leaking down the barrel. All these problems started to manifest within 500 rounds. No warning it would just stop working. So I take the marker and go down a carrier on the LX. I leave it with three shims in there (as it came from the factory) which seemed like a lot, but whatever. It starts firing again (no more leaking down the barrel), but now its super duper reactive. Impossible to fire just one shot. So its time to work on the ULT. I open up the ULT and find that the boys at AGD had left a whopping 6 shims in the ULT! So I knock that slowly down to 2. Now, its problem city again. The bolt will no longer work with the medium spring. It will fire like three shots and then cut out. And when I go back down to the stock bolt its better, but still bolt stick city! Half the time the lx works its stops the trigger from working. I give up. I have now gone back to my paintball store twice just to get my tank filled so I can try and tune this puppy. I've gone from heaven to hell.

                          From a technical standpoint it is by far the most complicated marker I have ever seen. The tolerances for the ULT (judging by the shims) seems to be on the order of one hundreth of an inch. With tolerances that tight Mr. Kaye's engineers should have realized that reliability would very likly be sacrificed. I am not a techy kind of guy. My VCR is not programed. I just want a marker that shoots well, and doesn't break balls or down. Furthermore, I don't understand is why there wasn't pages upon pages of documentation for this mag. I don't care if it looks like it was printed on a home copier on cheap paper, as long as its LONg and Thourough. All that came with it was a outdated SHORT manual, a tiny 3 inch by three inch sheet for the ULT and a square CD-Room for the LX that jams my CD-rom drive every time I insert it. I mean I wasn't even told how to remove the x-valve in the manual. I spent a while before I figured out you need to pull the trigger before removing the valve. How the hell was I supoosed to know that? I had to figure out how to udjust the shims on my ULT by myself. I spent a while trying to pull the thing in two before I relized that you have to unscrew it. I guess I shouldn't rag on AGD too hard, because I have yet to call up tech service. If they treat me well I will post a public apology. But still, this marker just seems like a unsolvable puzzle. I fix one aspect and a new problem pops up. And worst of all the two systems, trigger and bolt, seem to affect on another. So while your busy adjusting one, the other that was tuned gets thrown out of wack.

                          Look I know I'm gonna get flamed to hell and back for criticizing a marker everyone loves. But I when I called up AGD to order the thing, I told them I was technically challenged. I mean I really emphasized this. They assured me that everything would be set up for me at the factory, and the only I would need to do to keep the thing working was add some oil at the end of a days play. I wouldn't be so upset if they had just been honest with me: that with ULT and LX this is an extremely complex marker, and somewhat less than reliable unless you luck out and its set up perfect.
                          AGD doesn't need a long manual.. Instead you can just ask a question on these forums and it will get answered just as quickly and probablly better then any manual.. Also, I have a 2 and a half our video that came with an old mag I bought.. That thing is hella thorough.. I don't know how similar the classic valves are to the X's.. But AGD should really include a video with the markers with x valves.. Because it is a GREAT way to learn as it is all infront of you..

                          *Edit*.. And also, your story sounds alot like my brothers with his cocker.. He replaced EVERY part on it.. Including body, frontblock, valve.. Everything and it wouldn't work.. He gave it to variouse people to try and fix untill finally he found an eclipse tech who seemed to get it to work.. But then something else went wrong so he traded it for a nasty imp.. I know for a fact he likes the imp alot more.. Maybe mags just arn't for you

                          Comment

                          • cphilip
                            Former Moderator

                            • Jun 2026
                            • 16216

                            #14
                            [QUOTE]Originally posted by Chestercopperpot
                            I am using the shortest spring I got. Middle (red) spring makes the bolt stick somewhat more and The big silver spring doesn't work at all. I have to really crank my velocity to get the red one to work (about 1 and a half turns out from all the way up).

                            Use the red one and put in two normal shims. Use the same oring and put that 1.0 Carrier in and oil it slightly. Cranking the velocity up is totaly normal when using this one from the short one. Thats what you have to do. Do not worry about that.

                            I have two shims in my ULT its a little reactive but wont go into runaway. It feels pretty good.

                            Fine. Leave it alone for now. But three of four would be lighter and probably be fine too.

                            I have two LX shims and four ULT shims in my power tube. (i'm using the ULT shims because I crushed a lot of LX shims by accident)

                            Again just leave the two normal shims in there.

                            I am using the 1 carrier. 2 leaked like crazy (and changed pitch when I pushed on the bolt) and 1.5 leaked a little bit. .5 made the problem with the bolt not resetting worse.

                            1.0 is fine for now.


                            When I pull the trigger back all the way and hold it there is a tiny leak that quickly stops (maybe two seconds long)

                            P.S. I used a lot of oil in the gun (autolube) and I promise I didn't touch the thing until it really started having problems. Trust me opening up the mag was something I didn't want to do.


                            OK not let me get this straight... you say "until it started acting up" as if it at first was not? this is important. It started after a while?


                            AGD, where we are so good we can do it with only ONE tube!

                            cphilip.com

                            Comment

                            • Mag Master 04
                              Registered User
                              • Jun 2002
                              • 1537

                              #15
                              god copper u have the longest posts inthe history of AO, but as cphilip said once u learn then they are soo simple to work on and know what is wrong with them, not that u should have problems anyways after u learn it and get it set up right, i rarely mess with mine, if i do its just a rainy day and i have air in my tank and an itchy trigger finger

                              Comment

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