ReTro/ XValve on c02?

[warbeak2099]

Originally posted by Falcon1
Go buy a suba tank and fill station. It will play for it self. If you dont got the money go halfs with a friend or something.

Do not whatever you do attempt to fill tanks without the proper training. People have been injured and some killed because they didn't know what they were doing. It is not a light matter and should be taken seriously. The only people who should be filling tanks are those who have gone through classes/training and have acquired a license.
If you want a preset tank, get a nitro duck brand tank. They have always made, and still do make the best screw-in tanks on the market. If you don't want to dish out the extra $ for nitro, just use a classic valve.

[marfish]

First off, I'm not an expert on Automags but I've read just about everything I can get on the subject and I understand Co2 pretty well. Also I've read many Automag threads by others like yourself dealing with Co2 and Air. I've even asked some questions myself since I'm building my own first 'mag.
So, here goes. The above responses are totally right...mostly. What you want to hear is why they're right because it seems to defy logic and it disappoints you.

1. Yes, you are right about the stabilizer blocking liquid but remember the necessary pressure differences(a couple hundred psi.) for it to effectively do that. If you keep the stab. far from the valve, you will have gas only going into the valve, so, in effect, there won't be Co2 (liquid) going into it which is the concern of the R/T valve. It still may not do all the valve is designed to do because of the low pressure and face it: Even on a hot day you will get a cool down effect with Co2 and a requisite pressure drop that probably will eliminate it as a usable propellant.

2. It's a pressure issue. The RT valve needs a minimum of 800psi to work marginally well. It needs the higher pressure so it can recharge and re-cock the trigger 26 times per second. It doesn't send that much to the ball though. Co2 is at 853psi at 70*F(barely at the minimum needed) and begins to drop as soon as you begin firing due to cooling from expansion of liquid to gas. Use a reg. and now you're looking at around 650-750psi. At 80* Co2 is at 969psi(actual gas temperature not air temp.) At 90* it is about 1150psi(Go to www.warpig.com and look in their technical pages under Co2 for the neatest phaze chart and a description/discussion of Co2 properties.)

3. Regulating Co2 will only bring the pressure down more 'cause the stab./reg. can't separate out liquid if there isn't a difference between input and output pressures. The classic valve runs at about 375psi and doesn't really care if the supply is 500psi or 800. Now, if you can maintain a constant temp. around 80*, or more, on the Co2, you might get it to work. No liquid please.

4. You want the RT valve because it re-cocks the trigger for you at 26 times a second, so why would you want to eliminate the most important feature by running too low a pressure than it needs in order to do that? Co2 should be at least 80* or higher and maintained to give you what you need.

5. So on really hot days you might get away with Co2 while I'll be windsurfing at the lake.
Stay cool,
Marlan