Black Quad o-ring ???

[purplemag]

Measured it at .750", just a normal everyday run of the mill on/off pin!
Let me know what else you guys think!
Thanks!

[the electrician]

well you could just unscrew the top and bottom halves of the on/off a turn or so. this would temporarily have the same effect as shimming it up.

you see when you gas up the gun, pressure pushes the on/off assembly down just as it does the pin. so making the on/off longer, doesn't let it get go down as far, this keeps the seal point up higher. this makes the pin not get pushed in as far past the seal point. this increase the rechagre capability of the gun. that's why they made the shims with the ULT. you should be able to do it since you are essentially making it longer by usig the quad ring.

earlier you said it was leaking, where is it leaking from?

[RRfireblade]

Let me know what else you guys think!
Thanks!

Try cranking down the feild strip screw with an allen wrench and see what happens.

[the electrician]

yeah what he said.

make sure both your main screws are snug. I never leave mine hand tight.

so, did you try anything yet? do you have a lvl 10?

[purplemag]

yes LVL 10, you guys are absolutely gonna laugh or want to kill me, but all my gear is actually out of town right now. I was really just trying to get some ideas in my head for next week when I can sit down and make this quad o-ring work. So trust me this thread is bookmarked, and I will use it and let you know how it all turns out! Thanks a bunch!!!

[Butterfingers]

The seal point is lower if you use a quad o-ring... The 0-ring sealing surface is "fatter" intead of sealing in the middle of the o-ring like a urethane. The Quad o-ring seals right at its outer edge. It's on average obout a 0.025" diffrence. Thats why e-mag on/off pins are shorter.

The .750 pin needs to be shaved down to .725 or it wont work too well.

[the electrician]

butterfingers-

no, he doesn't have to cut the pin down. that's why you shim up the on/off, so you don't have to permanently cut the pin. you can't stretch the pin if you cut it too short, but you can always take a shim back out if it's too much. not all guns are exactly the same, so his may not need the same measurements as yours.

you are correct though, that is why e-mag pins are shorter. they are .712. but they can be this short because they are electronic. the solenoid actuates the sear for a specific amount of time. I wouldn't recommend using that short of a pin in a mechanical retro valve.

he's better off sticking to the shim idea. the .020 shimming that I recomended in my earlier post will get him close.

[purplemag]

So just to kinda sum up the thread...
Tighten the field strip screws with allen wrench
Add one LVL 10 shim to the on/off assembly and check if working properly then another if necessary.

???

[Butterfingers]

butterfingers-

no, he doesn't have to cut the pin down. that's why you shim up the on/off, so you don't have to permanently cut the pin. you can't stretch the pin if you cut it too short, but you can always take a shim back out if it's too much. not all guns are exactly the same, so his may not need the same measurements as yours.

you are correct though, that is why e-mag pins are shorter. they are .712. but they can be this short because they are electronic. the solenoid actuates the sear for a specific amount of time. I wouldn't recommend using that short of a pin in a mechanical retro valve.

he's better off sticking to the shim idea. the .020 shimming that I recomended in my earlier post will get him close.

Your right it can be done 2 ways. But In my particular body if you shim it up too much the brass on/off top gets hung up on the body. If he permanently decides to use the Quad o-ring the shave down is a more permanent solution. That's all im saying.

Also have you noticed any diffrences in consistency when going "too short" on a mech mag? Im still testing to see if there is actually a diffrence. I tried a .712 with a Quad-o-ring last time I played it was reactive as heck but I remember not being too happy at the chrono...

Im trying to figure out if it was a result of my messing around or if it was somthing else... like crappy Zap Spank Seconds.... Which I am proud to say my LX ate proudly without one chop while other people with "low pressure" guns mimicked wagner power painters...

Dark Olive Shell and thin spots in the paint where you could see right through to the pink fill didnt help im sure. ACE's were practically blind to this stuff...

But I digress...

[the electrician]

butterfingers-

I'm with ya, if you shim too much, the on/off won't fit inside the body, but you're talking about shimming it more than .060" on most bodies and on/offs to get that problem to occur.

for him, in his circumstance, the best method would be shimming. I think it's obvious that he doesn't completely understand his gun (no offense purple mag).


I have cut my pin down in my classic valve, e-mag mod. I noticed that originally, I could chave a full 1/16" off the pin, making it .687" long. but then I noticed a level 10 problem. when the bolt was stopped like it was chopping paint, it would no longer reset. what happened was the pin was letting air back intoo the chamber when the sear was stuck in this half way position. it couldn't go all the way back up, because the bolt was there. this was keeping the bolt from resetting. while this super short pin worked under normal conditions, and raised by bps considerably, If I pinched paint, it would be the end of the game for me. I found that I could shave the pin only .030" and it would cure this problem. so the pin was .720" then I tried the quad ring. I decided to try shimming at this point to avoid buying another pin if I cut this one too short. I actually shimmed the on/off .040" which is more than half the thickness of the quad ring. doesn't really make sense but it shot great. no level 10 problems, and my max bps increase from 16 to 18 with the classic valve. BUT the only reason it works is because my sear is actuated for a specific amount of time, every time. 30 msec. this does not work on a mechanical valve. I've tried.

[purplemag]

wow thanks for the compliment elec! I am pretty sure I have had a mag for about 7 years now, so I fully understand the principles that they work off of. But in this case I had a very specific question to a specific problem and had a general idea of how to fix it but just wanted some other opinions.
But I most certainly do know exactly how my gun works. Because I may not know where to put shims or such due to not ever doing work on that "type" of mod does not mean I do not know how my gun works. Sorry to rant, but man you make it sound like I am 12 and my parents just bought the gun for me.

[the electrician]

that came across wrong. I'm sorry.

but in your original post you said: "how do you know if your valve is supposed to use the two o-ring on/off or the one?"

to me, that sounds like you don't understand something. a retro valve cannot use two o-rings. it doesn't need them. have you ever taken apart a classic valve? if so you would see the difference right away. so from that statement, I assumed you didn't understand about the retro valve

I didn't mean to insult anybody at all. hell alot of people who own mags have no idea how a RT/retro/x valve actually works. i just try to give helpful suggestion that would be good advice for those who may or may not completely understand the whole workings of the gun.

no insult was intended at all, and I'm sorry if it ended up that way. I really just wanted you to be able to use the quad, and make sure to give good advice.

please accept my apologies