New 'Mag owner... Questions.

[Boydster]

I recently bought an Automag Classic power feed left off of eBay a couple of days ago. The guy lived in houston like me so I drove to get it. I got the gun but that was it. I didn't get the movie or manual or the other stuff. Warpig's FAQ for the Automag said I could call AGD and re-register my gun and they'd send me all the stuff. Called them and they no longer register Classics because they are so old. In addition, they stopped making the videos 6 months ago.

I take it the video shows how to crack the valve open. I would really like to see someone open the valve on the tape before I do and have springs fly all over the place. Is there a website that has the Classic Mag video hosted anywhere? Is there any way I could see that movie at all?

I bought the level 10 bolt kit off of eBay and it came with a Reactor on/off which supposedly lightens the trigger pull. The trigger pull right now seems like 5lbs. Is that normal? I thought my A-5's trigger pull was tuff... How do I get that on/off in there? Does the entire valve/reg become accessible by just unscrewing them?

Some other post I read in these forums said that CO2 causes shootdown. In the online mag manual on Warpig, they say these valves will recharge three times a second. If you shoot faster than that you'll get shootdown. Through out that entire manual, they talked about using CO2. In that post I read in these forums, the guy said HPA will eliminate the shootdown all together. Is that true?

Actual questions are in blue. There was something else I had in mind to ask you guys but I can't remember it. I should remember it by my next post. Thanks for the help!

[TMAXXKING1]

here is a good start

i love this link ... hope it helps you and welcome to ao

http://www.airgun.com/downloads/valveexplodedview.pdf

[frop]

go to AGD , you can find manuals there. look in the maintenance thread stickied up here for some good info. HPA does work wonders for shootdown, it's true.

[space_weazel_45]

Ok
1) As long as the gun is degassed and you have shot all the air out, NOTHING will fly out or off. The videos where digitized by someone and I have had no luck finding them recently and I just searched www.jayloo.com to no avail. The exploded view should provide all you need to know and we are all here to help. Given a little time I may be able to digitize the video and get you and others a copy but it may take a little time, pm so I can contact you when and if that occurs

2) The mag trigger is stiff, but snappy, you just have to learn how to shoot it, stay away from the reactor on/off it will only cause problems especially with the LX added, if it has a more open on/off top then you may be able to use that but it will only increase flow to the valve not lighten the trigger. Feel free to pm for more details about this.
The valve has a few parts the front [the bolt], the middle [valve], the back [the reg], and the on/off in the bottom. When you take off the front you have the bolt and the power tube which you will deal with when installing the LX [** read the LX instructions FIRST] and life will be much easier. When you unscrew the back from the middle you can fiddle with the reg seat which will wear out eventually not a regular thing. If you take the big threaded thing out the back part [the reg] you can change the reg piston or grease it you should rarely if ever need to get in here. Again any questions just ask, but ask first.

3) Mags can and have been run on co2, the co2 should have an antisiphon if mounted horizontally and the use of a regulator [set above 800psi] or a expansion chamber is recommended especially in colder climates. And since co2 expands slower at a lower pressure and changes due to relative temperature, it can be a hassle, HPA will help a great deal no need for an expansion chamber or a regulator, you gun wont "freeze" when shot in cooler temps and will work longer and better with fewer problems in the long run. co2 will wear the seals faster. HPA wont eliminate shootdown on a classic, the valve has limitations, but an RT, retro, emag, X valve wont have this limitation but is required to run on HPA because of it.

Bring on the questions.

[CaliMagFan]

geezz... pretty soon i'm gunna have to break down and digitize the classic video.... what format would you guys want?

i'll most likely do something like this: record vhs to digital8 tape via sony camcoder...DL that as DV info to my computer and edit it into chapters and so forth, change format and presto...

VCD or DVD i can make menus and all that jazz on both, but the DVD would of course be higher.... only those without DVD-rom on their computers would be out of luck. oh yes, and i would send copies for free, but it would be cool if you could mail me back a buck or 2 to cover cd/DVD cost and postage...

oh yeah, and i dont know if ther eis an RT vid... i never got one, but would be willing to produce one, but it wouldnt be official AGD.... i'm pretty good with my ule custom and would make a video to that effect. ---thoughts?

-kyro

[Boydster]

If anyone did make a copy of that video I'd be more than willing to send a blank tape and cover shipping or something.

So that's ALL the parts in the valve/reg? I'm looking in the link TMAXXKING1 supplied. Not near as many as I would have thought.

I guess I knew the trigger was stiff but I didn't realize the 'snappynness'. Now that I think about it, that snappyness is VERY snappy. So if the stiff trigger pull is normal, I can live with it because of the snappyness as you call it.

I won't use the Reactor on/off.

If you take the big threaded thing out the back part [the reg] you can change the reg piston or grease it you should rarely if ever need to get in here.

I thought that was an accessory. The velocity adjuster, right? I've only seen classic mags with the allen wrench type velocity adjuster. So that hand-twist-RVA is stock on some models?

3) Mags can and have been run on co2, the co2 should have an antisiphon if mounted horizontally and the use of a regulator [set above 800psi] or a expansion chamber is recommended especially in colder climates. And since co2 expands slower at a lower pressure and changes due to relative temperature, it can be a hassle, HPA will help a great deal no need for an expansion chamber or a regulator, you gun wont "freeze" when shot in cooler temps and will work longer and better with fewer problems in the long run. co2 will wear the seals faster. HPA wont eliminate shootdown on a classic, the valve has limitations, but an RT, retro, emag, X valve wont have this limitation but is required to run on HPA because of it.

I have an N2 tank just so you know now. I was testing my gun out I had CO2 running through it because I didn't want to run out of nitrogen. I was going to go play today but it's too wet. When using CO2(and N2) the Palmer Stabilizer is hooked up always so that should stop the liquid altogether. The online mag manual on Warpig says the Classic valve can recharge three times a second. Any faster and you'll get shootdown. Is that true???

geezz... pretty soon i'm gunna have to break down and digitize the classic video.... what format would you guys want?

DVD would be cheapest. Cheap medium to store stuff and it's light so cheap shipping. Though I would pay you if you have Paypal or something.

[Boydster]

What pressure does the gun operate the best at? How high can it operate without doing damage to the buit-in regulator? Lastly, is it safe to turn the built-in regulator all the way in and regulate the pressure solely from the palmer?

EDIT:That was my dad talking. He thinks my gun isn't shooting far enough. It goes about 75 feet and then drops off as usual. That's normal, right? The Palmer is set at 680psi and the RVA is in to about where I can't turn it anymore. I don't think I should turn the velocity knob all the way in. When it goes that far it becomes impossible to turn back out. I found while shooting it today that this has a lot of blow-back gas. I stuck a peice of paper towel over the hole and that blew far away.

Here, what pressure should I set the Palmer at? Then I could do the fine tuning with the gun's reg.

Does the level ten fix the blow-back by any chance? If it doesn't, is there a mod I can do to eliminate it?

[CaliMagFan]

set your palmer at about 800 if you can... the mags internal reg is all you really need... your Co2 bottle of course has 1 reg... that is what is putting the gas out at anywhere from 500-900psi.... then you have the automag reg that takes that 500-900 and cuts it down into the mid 400's to shoot... the palmer stabilizer should only be used to help filter out any liquid in the system and not to actually regulate the pressure down or up..

the way to see where the adjuster in the back of the marker should be is to shoot the marker over a chronograph and see if its shooting at about 290 fps... it if is, then you're in the right spot more or less.... you could turn your palmer stabilizer up ad infinium and it would not affect the speed/distance of your shots becaue the automag reg has the final say on what the operating pressure of the marker is...

tell your dad that its not an issue as to how far you think your marker "should" be shooting... its a question of if your marker is shooting within the legal limits-- UNDER 300fps---

ie.. you shoot at 300 fps and gravity accelerates matter toward earth at 16ft per sec^2... shooting level from your chest (approx. 5ft high).... fire the marker and the ball will hit the ground at ~5/16 (~1/3) a sec from the time of the shot, which is ~1/3 of 300 feet... so approximately 100 feet away... thats the ball hitting the ground, not the ball hitting something at the same level...

-kyro

[Boydster]

-So the ball should hit the ground at 100'? k I've been trying to tell him I'd change it if it wasn't shooting fast enough but he really want me to turn it up. I can tell it is going plenty fast enough.

-Is the RVA on my gun an accessory or is it stock? I've only seen the allen wrench type velocity adjusters and when I went to get this gun I was amazed becuase his listing didn't show the RVA hand adjuster. So do some models have that stock?

-Does the lvl 10 eliminate blow back? If not, do you know of a mod that will?

-Is the trigger normally stiff? I know if I got a double trigger, that would be far from walkable.

-The online mag manual on Warpig says the Classic valve can recharge three times a second. Shoot any faster and you'll get shootdown. Is that true???

-If somebody makes a video, why don't you put online?

- http://www.airgun.com/downloads/valveexplodedview.pdf Is that every part in the valve/reg assembly? Or is that the broad veiw? There's not very many parts there...

[space_weazel_45]

[Boydster]

-My Palmer is at 680 right now. Is that bad? Do I need to move it above 800? I thought the gun's reg would bring it down even further than that at first because of what this guy said...

set your palmer at about 800 if you can... the mags internal reg is all you really need... your Co2 bottle of course has 1 reg... that is what is putting the gas out at anywhere from 500-900psi.... then you have the automag reg that takes that 500-900 and cuts it down into the mid 400's to shoot... the palmer stabilizer should only be used to help filter out any liquid in the system and not to actually regulate the pressure down or up..

-The level 10 bolt is for Christmas. I had to buy it now because it was an auction. So I guess I'll make another post about that when Christmas comes along.

-This is what the manual says about the velocity drop-off....
Using Pressure Regulators
[36] All pressure regulators, by the nature of their design, cannot fill a chamber instantly. Regulators must fill most of the chamber quickly then taper off to reach the desired pressure. Chamber Fill on the 68AUTOMAG takes roughly 1/3 of a second. Because of the Regulator tapering off, when firing the paintball gun faster than three shots per second, the Air Chamber will not fill fully and the average velocity will drop by 10 to 20 fps.

-Is the RT valve tourny legal? The Tippmann response trigger isn't and this basically does the same thing.

-Can the valve or reg be damaged if the RVA is twisted in too far? I believe I've heard the Palmer can be damaged if it's screwed in too far. Is that true for either case?

[frop]

Yes the RT IS legal, if you set it up for no bounce. The primary effect of the ULT is to eliminate bounce(along with a nice light pull).

Damage by screwing in too far? Your valve will start leaking before you can cause any damage.

[space_weazel_45]

ok
the speed at which a regulator refills it mandated by the flow in to it, the slower the flow the slower the refill. put the palmer reg above 800 and forget it, period. you wont help anything by having it lower.

the tippmann RT and the Mag RT are not the same, the tippmann RT is designed to bounce producing an full auto effect, the Mag RT is designed to increase your rate of fire by pushing the trigger back in to the ready position faster, the bouncyness is a side affect of the system but it is nowhere near as bouncy as a tippmann RT at the standard pressures. the videos you see of rapid fire are generally with input pressures around 1100-1200psi from and adjustable system. Yes the Mag RT can be legal as long as it conforms to the one shot per pull rule, even with out a ULT if you have a fixed output tank, around 800-900psi you will find it hard to sweet spot, the bouncyness. this varies a little form valve to valve and trigger frames if you get an adjustable system you CAN lower the input on AN RT VALVE and keep the RT effect with out bounce. Or you can raise it and get lots of bounce. Most RT valve will cease to function around 650psi depending on set up.

no you can not damage the valve by having the velocity to high, assuming the reg piston is working properly it should vent around 300FPS its a built in safety feature.

[space_weazel_45]

look here for classic recharge info

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=158137&highlight=recharge

as for regulators start at post #15 andgod down, look at the graphs note the timelapse and imput pressures.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=34429

[Boydster]

-So... Somebody said the recharge rate is 16bps on a Classic valve. The manual says three. What's correct?

-What does the power tube spacer kit do? It says it changes the trigger characteristics. Does that mean it lightens it or what?

-I keep hearing the word shims. What is that?

-I've never heard my gun venting. Is it a very noticeable noise? Could the RVA be hiding it if it's minute? Or am I doing good because I've never heard it? It's caused because of over pressure right? As in I would have the RVA in too far?

-I unscrewed the valve from the reg because my curiosity got the best of me. All I saw was a pin sticking out and a little square shaped oring over the pin. How do you get to the rest of the valve? And what parts wear out the fastest and are the prime suspects for leaks?

-Oh, hear's the question I've been wondering for days. If I have 2 90* connectors on the valve and VA, and I have a quick disconnect hooked on the valve's 90*, how long should the steel line be? 4 or 5 inches? I already have a spare 4 inch line.