New 'Mag owner... Questions.

[11_Mile_TMaster]

-So... Somebody said the recharge rate is 16bps on a Classic valve. The manual says three. What's correct?

-What does the power tube spacer kit do? It says it changes the trigger characteristics. Does that mean it lightens it or what?

-I keep hearing the word shims. What is that?

-I've never heard my gun venting. Is it a very noticeable noise? Could the RVA be hiding it if it's minute? Or am I doing good because I've never heard it? It's caused because of over pressure right? As in I would have the RVA in too far?

-I unscrewed the valve from the reg because my curiosity got the best of me. All I saw was a pin sticking out and a little square shaped oring over the pin. How do you get to the rest of the valve? And what parts wear out the fastest and are the prime suspects for leaks?

-Oh, hear's the question I've been wondering for days. If I have 2 90* connectors on the valve and VA, and I have a quick disconnect hooked on the valve's 90*, how long should the steel line be? 4 or 5 inches? I already have a spare 4 inch line.

Okay... one at a time

-The Classic valve, from my understanding, under ideal conditions, starts to shoot down at around 16 CPS. Here are the 'ideal conditions' I remember
At least 800 PSI input into the valve (have that palmer set at 800 or as high as it will go. If you have an adjustable nitrogen tank... Turn it up!)
Reg Seat in Decent shape (Don't unscrew the Valve halves too often. From what I'm told, It causes the Reg seat to not make the same seal as it did before, eventually causing shootdown)
Rest of parts decently oiled

-Power tube spacers can change the feel of a trigger minorly. However, the incorrect spacers can either cause Bolt Stick (Bad) or other problems (Still bad.) In general, the stock spacer is what you should use unless you're having problems.

-Shims are now used in place of Power tube spacers in Level 10 Bolt setups. Instead of switching out the entire spacer, you just add/remove a shim. They are also used for ULT setups, for a similar purpose.

-Venting out the back means the pressure is too high, normally, and is almost definately unsafe... unless certain other conditions are met. (i.e. older piston with Level 10 setup, etc etc)

-Reg Seats. As I said, good reg seats will prevent shootdown. In general... I've had my Classic mag for a year... I've used 1 full rebuild kit on it, it includes just about every seal you'll need. Uhh... As for disassembling the valve, too tired to detail that.

-Only one way to find out. Check. YMMV when it comes to hose setups.
Hope I was some help.

[Boydster]

-I don't see how I could get the pressure too high though. The Palmer is set at 800+ and the gun's reg brings it down. Would the gun allow me to screw the RVA in too much? How do you get the over pressure?

-

-Only one way to find out. Check. YMMV when it comes to hose setups.
Hope I was some help.

Y what what what? Is that a hose chart like countypaintball's? Theirs doesn't have it listed.

[11_Mile_TMaster]

-I don't see how I could get the pressure too high though. The Palmer is set at 800+ and the gun's reg brings it down. Would the gun allow me to screw the RVA in too much? How do you get the over pressure?

- Y what what what? Is that a hose chart like countypaintball's? Theirs doesn't have it listed.

YMMV: Your mileage may Vary. People like different hose setups. It also varies a lot depending on whether you're using a Vertical Adapter, things like that. When I get hoses I usually take my gun to the shop, and just kinda make sure that I like the length of the run from fitting to fitting. You can do that without actually putting any hoses on.

And yes, You can get the pressure too high. I ran 800 PSI into my classic, had the adjuster in too much, and it was venting out the back. Backing it off did the job.

[Boydster]

-OK. Thanks. I now know I don't have it too far in. But it's pretty much ALL the way in. Maybe it's not venting because my Palmer is at 680psi?... If I turn the Palmer up, I'd then need to take the gun's reg out, correct?

-When I'm adjusting the RVA, am I adjusting the air flow or psi? Cause in the manual it says the gun brings the psi to 550 and is not user adjustable. If 550 is set am I only adjusting how much air will hit the ball in order to change velocity?

-If somebody would be kind enough to describe disassembling the valve, or give a link to someone that did, that would be great. I just need to know where and how to put all the orings and parts that come in the parts kit.

[11_Mile_TMaster]

-OK. Thanks. I now know I don't have it too far in. But it's pretty much ALL the way in. Maybe it's not venting because my Palmer is at 680psi?... If I turn the Palmer up, I'd then need to take the gun's reg out, correct?

-When I'm adjusting the RVA, am I adjusting the air flow or psi? Cause in the manual it says the gun brings the psi to 550 and is not user adjustable. If 550 is set am I only adjusting how much air will hit the ball in order to change velocity?

-If somebody would be kind enough to describe disassembling the valve, or give a link to someone that did, that would be great. I just need to know where and how to put all the orings and parts that come in the parts kit.

-Quite likely .Set your palmer to 800 psi and re-chrono the gun.

-YES. Allow me to explain:
Your total 'flow' of air is going to be your pressure * the volume of the chamber. Therefore... Using a higher pressure means more volume will be in the chamber, more total air flow.
Now, as for the Velocity adjuster, You ARE adjusting PSI. The mag, on average, uses 400-650 PSI to fire the ball out at 300 FPS. This depends on paint/barrel match, length of barrel, things like that.

There are some similarly Designed guns that provided for velocity adjustment by the size of the dump chamber (Namely, the Armson Semi.)

-Still too tired to help with that one.

[Boydster]

-So if I have the RVA cranked in, I'm using more air? I thought it just compresses air or makes it squeeze thru a smaller opening.

-I shot my gun tonight and it shot two balls at once. Is that the result of short-stroking?

-Another thing I noticed tonight is if I hold the trigger, it'll make a watery leak sound for about a second and a half. Is that normal? Why the liquid sound?

-Is there a site dedicated to Automags like there is to 98 customs? (model98.org)

-I'm going to try searching for details on opening the valve...

EDIT: While I was searching(which didn't give any answers), I saw this in a stray thread.

Might want to check the orientation of the reg seat. Make sure it's the right side up.

When I unscrewed my valve from the reg, that squarish oring thing popped out. Found it and put it back in. Gun still works fine but I guess I was lucky and installed it correctly. What is up and what is down?

Thanks.

[space_weazel_45]

Ok i'm not trying to be mean but, you need to listen to what we are saying and follow our instructions, a mag is a different system from every other type it has special issues and requirements we are trying to help but you have to listen and follow what we are saying,

if you want to know a lot of the answers to your questions, like how to disassemble the valve i am recommending you go to Paintball Maxx in Houston and ask for brad or someone else there will most defiantly know mags and the answers to all you questions.

http://www.paintballmaxx.com/main/

[Boydster]

Copied from last post...

Sorry I'm a nuisance. It's just I was over-whelmed with the complexity of this gun compared to my old A-5. A thousand questions and concerns were going through my head. If I lived anywhere close to a pro-shop, I'd be there; I promise. I'm trying my best to understand, believe me. I'm not officially in Houston. I live in New Caney which is about an hour away from the city. People know where Houston is and not New Caney. Please answer these last two questions and I'll leave this thread be. Thanks to everyone who has helped so far.

-I shot my gun tonight and it shot two balls at once. Is that the result of short-stroking?

-Another thing I noticed tonight is if I hold the trigger, it'll make a watery leak sound for about a second and a half. Is that normal? Why the liquid sound? One second, I put oil in the ASA but shouldn't the Palmer stop that from going to the valve? So it can't be oil. It can't be liquid CO2.

[guysdaman]

PM me, I have an old classic valve video I will send you for the price of shipping!

[Boydster]

Just PM'd ya. Thanks!

[space_weazel_45]

http://store.airgun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=2&categoryID=16

[Boydster]

I kept saying 680psi because I haven't got around to changing it yet. It's changed now. Sorry.

Wow. Thanks. Now, I color-coded the diagram for reference. These are all of my questions. I've got no more. (Most are yes or no answers.)

-Does short-stroking cause double feeding if the ball can fall in fast enough?

Now for the valve....

-I opened the PT earlier today. All the parts came out. Just that last oring circled in red did not. How does that come out?

-Does the on/off assembly come out by prying the 'lip' on the silver part(blue circle) sticking out with a flat-head? Or do I get pliers and grab the pin? Will the other part(purple circle) in there come out freely once the outside part is gone?

-Is the spring pack the part circled in yellow? How is that adjusted at all?(I know you said not to. Just doesn't seem like it can be adjusted at all. And it doesn't look like a spring but that's the only thing I could come up with in the reg area.)

-When I took the yellow circle thing out to clean the crap out, the casing that that stays in didn't look like it would move at all. How does that come out?

-What is that thing under the reg circled in brown?

-When I get the lvl 10 bolt installed, does the spacer get replaced by the carrier? What's the difference if so?

-Point the reg piston out please. If it's circled, name the color.

- In the part "OK NOW THE IMPORTANT PART" part, what would need to be done with the bolt? There are no moving pieces.

-In the same section, the PT tip has a hole in it so all I do is drop oil in that hole and I'll be set? Or would it be better to take it apart and oil the orings better?

-When I put oil in the on/off assy., I pry it out and drop oil in or do I do a thoroughly oil the orings and parts?

-I was going to ask about that oil sign on the reg. My reg has oil printed on it but it has a line going to two holes. Do I put oil in both?

-I'll email the Palmer staff and let you know about the oil passing thru or not.

-Umm..., that's it. Thanks. Lots of questions, I know. That's would sum up about every question about the gun out there once these are done. I've got no more. Thank you for your help so far. Answer these if you dare. (They're short answers though.)

[LoveMyMagMoreThanYou]

[QUOTE=Boydster]If anyone did make a copy of that video I'd be more than willing to send a blank tape and cover shipping or something.[QUOTE]
I have the video and the tape says that it is ok to make as many copies as you want. If you want copies I would be willing to make them if you send the tape to me and cover shipping both ways.

[Boydster]

Let me see what happens between guysdaman and me first. (Look up.) If that doesn't work out for some reason or another I'll get in touch with you. Thanks though.

[space_weazel_45]

http://www.automags.org/resource/level10/index.shtml