RTP sear vs Classic?

[RogueFactor]

Excuse me but please do not try and drag me into your negativity. I never said anything bad about you I simply prefer Logic products. I'm quite sure your products are very good and superb quality as most of AO loves you, however I just prefer Logic's. I still respect you very much. You do not need to poke fun at me or call me any sarcastic names such as a "self-proclaimed loyal follower".

You guys shouldn't be arguing and especially shouldn't be dragging customers into it. This is AO, supposedly a place where decency can exist. Cmon, it's the holiday season. Why can't Logic and Rogue exist in friendly competition? Why can't we promote a positive atmopshere where people can sell their products without fear of getting flamed by their competitor(s)? That's what the rest of the industry is doing. No more hidden messages or inuendo putting down the competitor, no more fighting, no more acting like a bunch of little SP's. AO is supposed to be just the opposite. Let's keep it that way and keep this place something we can all be proud of. You guys should be buds, not bitter enemies. After all, we're all maggers...

HaHa...There is no negativity. I wasnt poking fun at you or being sarcastic. You proclaimed yourself as a loyal follower of his. Pointing that out isnt sarcastic or poking fun.

From my side of the fence, it is a friendly competition(read above). But dont read anything into what I have said that isnt there, there are no hidden messages or innuendo...

You asked a question, I answered it. You arent going to play what Ive said backwards and find a hidden message

AO'ers know me well enough to know that I am friendly, talkative, and go 110% all the time for my customers. What else is there?

Happy holidays

[warbeak2099]

Rogue, I'm so dissapointed. Man, you totally missed what I said. Can't you just let things go and not have to have the last word? I just gave a whole spiel about being mature and dignified. Cmon man, I meant before what I said about respecting you. Please don't keep going back and forth. I'm so sick and tired of this. I'm starting to get a different idea of who you really are. Please just stop the attacking. You are attacking Coolhand a lot and you do use a lot of inuendo. Take it from an objective 3rd party who respects you both. Please, don't keep up this negative atmosphere. Do I have to say it again? WE'RE ALL MAGGERS HERE!!!


EDIT: As a response to what you said just above, there you go again. You're being condescending towards me. Just let it go, you're both being overly defensive and offensive for that matter. I'm really starting to feel offended by your comments Rogue. I don't think Coolhand or myself are reading to much into it. It really is coming off pretty negative. You may not mean it that way, but that's how it's coming off. Just accept it, have some humility.

[warbeak2099]

Look, sorry this is my fault. I'm keeping this going.
You both make great products. You're both great guys. AO loves and respects you both. Do the right thing and give each other a hug. Well...er, a cyber hug. Nothing dirty now!

[CoolHand]

I find it humorous that the Logic Delta rail cut from an RT Pro rail can be a Logic rail, but that my stuff has to be one or the other of the two above.

Any part cut from an AGD part(like a SLUG Body) but cosmetically altered(like a few of the bodies availabe on the open market) can be both. Neither have to be false.

Ah, that's just it. Our Deltas weren't based off of an AGD rail. They would have been from scratch, just like the Alphas are. It would have been my part. Now, would it have been up to AGD standards? Certainly.

I actually felt rather cut out of the loop, in that I had been asking about the extrusion that the AGD rails are cut from, and never really got anywhere. Then you and Tuna turn up with some of it. I may just be paranoid, but it smelled fishy to me. However, it may also just be a really crappy coincidence, and if I called again, they'd sell to me too. I haven't tried again as of this posting (but I may now that I think about it ).

You make and market your products any way you wish. You choose to diverge from AGD stuff, and thats cool. I applaude you for being different. But for you to get angry for having to defend that choice is just plain silly.

I would just like to be able to say "Yes, the tolerances are fine, and if they weren't, I'd stand behind them and make it right.", and that be the end of it. But it never is. I have to go back over and over and over again, and it gets old (especially since you've been around for most of those threads). I take offense to the suggestion that since my stuff didn't come right from AGD, that it is somehow less well made. It also grinds on me that you get a free pass on the stuff you have cut (like the frames, unless AGD actually manufactures them for you).

When it comes to the tolerance sensitive parts, I choose to use AGD goods. Guess what? It costs more to do so, and that comes out of my pocket. It also has a benefit. And I would be negligent not to point that out.

Yes, it is good to point out that your parts start from AGD parts (IE they should work like a stock part), but it could easily be taken that if your parts are the ones with "AGD Quality", then mine would not be (as I have hear from prospective customers on occasion). Which is simply not true. Maybe I'm just overly sensitive. Or maybe its more what I hear from the guys that worship you, rather than anything you've said yourself. Opinion is opinion, but it is not always labeled as such, and on an internet forum it can carry just as much weight as fact (or more in some instances). AO didn't used to be like that, but it is increasingly headed in that direction.

Instead, I hope that you do what you did with your vert frame. You go back, and make it better. You finally listened to your customer and changed the grip shape, added a safety, and changed the trigger.I applaude you for recognizing youd have to change your original design to meet your customers needs.Very smart man you are

Yes, you must listen to the customers. At the time of development, most aftermarket frames did not have safeties, and with the big trigger pull you didn't really need them. But (and its a big one), the trigger stops I implemented worked so well that you were now able to shoot yourself in the foot really easily. The customers asked, and I changed the design. Same as the new Alpha rails. I didn't really care for how the wider frames would hang out of the scallops, so I made them a little wider to cover that. Products must continually evolve to stay with the market.

I actually enjoy the competition, and I like you around here. It makes me work harder, and think harder, of how to make better parts for AO'ers. I guess what I am saying is that [Jerry MaGuire Voice] you complete me [/Jerry Maguire voice]

Indeed. I too enjoy the strategy involved with trying to "out do" Roguefactor. Its like a never ending chess match, where we can introduce new pieces at any time. Very cool.

Hostility? You must read more into my posts than are there. My first contact with you ever was in extending help to you(many moons ago, in 2003). It was rebuffed when you *took it out of context*. And yet, I still hold no ill-will towards you personally.

I must admit that I don't remember what you're talking about here. (Though I am a fairly grumpy person by nature, so it wouldn't be unheard of either) If you have the thread, PM me the link so I can read it (and possibly appologize in hindsight). I don't hold any personal distaste toward you either, in reality, I don't know you from Adam. All I have to go off of is what you post, and in some cases, it hasn't been too awfully friendly between us. So, I assumed the worst, and set my course accordingly.

HaHa ...There is no mud-slinging. I am using quotes from the guy who created this marker. It appears that when it doesnt fit your bill, its *innuendo*. I am sure if you could find a thread that backed up your case, you would have pointed it out already.

I've never been much for the "these guys said it, and it backs me up, so I'm right" kinda debates. I only rely on what I have personally done, tested, measured, etc, and the advice of trusted associates. Its served me well to this point, I don't see why it won't continue. If I don't have any background in something, I either keep my mouth shut, or go do the homework so I have the background. And again, the innuendo thing may just be me reading too much into a comment, or taking some else's words as coming from you.

And I as well. Ive never seen the need to drag your stuff down. Many customers have asked me to bad-mouth your stuff. I refuse. All I ever do is point out the benefits of my stuff. And thats just business.

Again, it may just be me over interpreting what is actually on the page, or what comes from the guys asking you to do it (IE you won't, so they do).

As previously stated, I was the first to offer and extend help to you many moons ago...I cant say I have ever received that same treatment from you. Ever.

You know, you are right. I guess it never occurred to me that you'd even want my help (interpretation again, I know). This adversarial relationship has just sorta happened between us, and in reality, it doesn't need to be that way.

I tell you what, and I am totally serious here: If you ever come up with a project you'd like to work on in concert, I'd be more than happy to go in with you on it. God only knows what we could turn out if we worked together.

Damn bud... I feel bad that you think that. Ive never had to tear down everyone elses parts. In fact, I constantly attempt to work with every dealer I know(and can work with of course) to sell their products. Even if it means that I dont make a penny. Karma will re-pay me, someday.

Well, don't feel too bad, like I said before, I may need to step back a bit. Start taking things at closer to face value again. That got me into some trouble years ago (the term gullable jumps to mind), but its never to late for a second go-round I guess.

You will find that your perceptions are mis-guided.

I may indeed.

What do you say to a New Year's truce, and maybe even a collaboration?

Happy Holidays, to you, to Warbeak, and to every other poor soul who happened onto this thread.

But I still think that the Classic Sear will be OK. (I kid, I kid . . . . )

[warbeak2099]

Now that's what I'd like to see, a Logic + RPG product. That would be the ultimate Christmas, Rogue and Coolhand making the uber mag part.

[trains are bad]

I want to buy an rtp sear. Anyone got one?

[Arson51]

that was the smartest "flamer war" ive ever witnessed. and i learned about the diffrent type of sears along the way! part of me wishes this would happen again, the other part wishes i never will remember this night.

[warbeak2099]

Seriously though, how amazing would a Logic/Rogue product be. The "Logue" Mag!

[Thordic]

Rogic would be better

[warbeak2099]

Haha, there's another one. Didn't think of that.

[CoolHand]

Rogic would be better

I was just going to say that.

Its like engrish.

[warbeak2099]

I still like Logue! Well, we have yet to hear from Rogue. Whaddya think man? The ultimate custom mag by Logue or Rogin?

[RogueFactor]

What do you say to a New Year's truce, and maybe even a collaboration?

I have always let bygones be bygones. Holding grudges isnt good for the customer or ultimately for business. And for the sake of AO, it would be best.

I am open to suggestions

[CoolHand]

I have always let bygones be bygones. Holding grudges isnt good for the customer or ultimately for business. And for the sake of AO, it would be best.

I am open to suggestions

Schweeeeet.



Now I've got to ponder on what kind of project to persue . . . . .

I'll give it a think and email you (You don't do PMs, do ya?).

Later

[j.storm]

get together with Nicad and do a new rail/body combo and make the Rogicad Mag.....say that 3 times fast