CO2 in a Tac One - Thoughts?

[doc_Zox]

heres my sidelined classic 68 rig:

[chinstrap]

If you're describing what I think you're describing, then the answer is no, in fact it will be good. The more room you can give the co2 to expand from a liquid to a gas before it gets to your valve, the better. Thats why remotes are so effective at keeping co2 out of your gun (and the fact that most remote setups have the tank vertical and no liquid gets out) and thats also why they designed expansion chambers. But a gas through isnt going to do a whole lot to help. It wont hurt though.

That's what I originally thought, but when I ran a search on it, I saw some posts that said to only use the gas-through with HPA which put a big ol' on my face.

So I figured it might be due to the inherent instability of CO2 and that the gas-through isn't designed for that kind of pressure, but then I thought:

1) Why would they do that?
2) Isn't HPA at a higher pressure than CO2?

So I came to the conclusion that some people probably just don't know what they're talking about. But I just had to double check. Thanks.

doc_Zox: That's a pretty sweet setup. How many shots do you get from a 12 gram? And how did you mount the ASA on the rail like that? Just drill holes?

cyrus-the-virus: If I ever decide to switch to just HPA, you'll be first in line for the stabilizer. I thought you already had a Mag set up for CO2, what happened?

[personman]

Yeah.. people use gas throughs with HPA simply because it is already in the form of a compressed gas, and it doesnt need to go through a phase change, so it doesnt need that extra space. I dont think it would hurt to use an expansion chamber with hpa.. and dont quote me because ive never looked in one before, but it might restrict the flow a little.

[doc_Zox]

i would get about 8-10 rapid (1 per second) before it would freeze up

adding the sideline let me get 20 at 1 per second

i have yet to crony it so that could be 20 at 200fps
but they seemed to fly pretty straight and hit pretty hard on my wheelbarrow/target

the olde rails were set up for rear ASA

[chinstrap]

So I just got the airlines and fittings on and lubed 'er up. Then I encountered a problem:

When I screwed in my CO2 tank, I got pressure and the trigger was springy. When I pulled it, however, I got nothing.

There are no leaks or anything and I tried the velocity at all sorts of different settings with the Stabilizer all the way up.

I actually did manage to get one shot out, but then it made a "pfft" noise (chuffed I suppose?) and wouldn't shoot again.

I'm hoping that I'm just really low on gas. I'm headed to get a refill on my tank right now, but in the event that low gas is not the problem, I'd really appreciate any help (have a game at 9:00am tomorrow).

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: I put a fresh CO2 tank on and no difference, so it must be something else.

EDIT 2: I started messing around with the Level 10 and I think I may have screwed the pooch; went to the next higher carrier and there was still no difference (springy, but won't fire), but now I can't adjust my velocity (the thing won't turn).

[Coralis]

Degass the gun and try adjust the velocity up and down ..... while your at it disassemble the valve back a, pull out the piston and inspect the oring replace if necessary and oil it before reassembly take a toothbrush and clean the threads of the velocity adjuster and the body where it screws in. Oil or grease the spring pack .... note the oil or grease is really only to prevent corrosion on the spring pack as it really isnt a moving part (except when you are actually adjusting the velocity. Before putting the gun back together slide the level 10 bolt up and down the power tube does it slide easily or is tough ... if its too hard then you need to oil it very good or go to the next larger carrier try again

[chinstrap]

I managed to get the velocity adjuster working again, it just required some elbow grease. The marker still won't fire though.

The bolt slides over the power tube very easily to the point where if I do not point the marker up when removing the valve and bolt, it'll stay in the gun.

I also cleaned and oiled the on/off pin and all the parts inside there, but it still won't fire, and now it's leaking down the barrel.

Is it possible that there isn't enough pressure on the on/off pin when I pull the trigger? I went down the debug chart in the 68 Classic manual and did/verified everything up to "Check for proper gap between trigger and rod/trigger and frame." I don't think there's a problem there since the trigger is all springy and whatnot and when I gas it up, it makes a clicking sound.

I read on the AGD website that certain sear assemblies aren't compatible with the older stuff. Could my on/off pin be too short? Do I need a different rail?
It's a stock Tac One, but I'm using a classic valve and level 10 instead of the X-Valve with level 10. That's it.

I'm really stumped here and it may be time for me to call AGD tech support unless someone here comes up with THE solution. I've tried everything I can think of and everything other people have thought of and I'm fresh out of ideas.

[Pneumagger]

Your sear rod may be too short. To see if this is the case, remove the grip panels. Then, with a skinny object, manually pull back the sear leg. If it fires, then you simply need to lengthen the rod.

No?

Now, this may sound odd... remove the valve and take the bolt off. Reinsert the valve without bolt.
Screw in the air tank. If the gun does not leak and shoot air out the barrel real loud... then your sear arm is too long causing the on off to never be open. Either the sear rod is too long, or the on/off pin is entirely too long.
If it does leak then replace the bolt and proceed to number 3

No?

Now remove the on/off assembly. Make sure the rounded bulbus end of the pin is facing down and the flat end is facing into the valve. Simple mistake... happens all the time.



Good Luck!

[chinstrap]

Pneumagger: Thanks. So far I've tried 2 and 3, but I apparently don't have the right size allen wrench to get the grip panels off for 1, so I need to go allen wrench shopping.

As far as 2 and 3:

I assembled the marker without the bolt and it leaked like a mother. The on/off pin is also in the right way.

I'm REALLY hoping it's just the trigger rod.

Also, I had the sticking thing with the regulator nut again, so I took it apart and shined it up real good; there was a lot of dirt in there. I couldn't get the regulator piston out to thoroughly clean it though. I'm guessing I have to remove the Z-nut first, but I can't figure out how to do it.

Should it just pop out? Or is there some kind of trick to removing it?

[egb groupie]

Pneumagger: Thanks. So far I've tried 2 and 3, but I apparently don't have the right size allen wrench to get the grip panels off for 1, so I need to go allen wrench shopping.

As far as 2 and 3:

I assembled the marker without the bolt and it leaked like a mother. The on/off pin is also in the right way.

I'm REALLY hoping it's just the trigger rod.

Also, I had the sticking thing with the regulator nut again, so I took it apart and shined it up real good; there was a lot of dirt in there. I couldn't get the regulator piston out to thoroughly clean it though. I'm guessing I have to remove the Z-nut first, but I can't figure out how to do it.

Should it just pop out? Or is there some kind of trick to removing it?

You don't need to take the z-lock pin out to get to any of the internals. It is there just to lock the valve into the rail. You also never mentioned what you are using for an ASA/airline hose combination. Are you using an on/off or a screw in? SS braided line or macroline? You could be having air issues as well.

[chinstrap]

Should the regulator piston just slide out then? If it should, then I think there might be a problem in that area. If not, then how do I get it out?

My ASA is some random old ghetto screw-in at the moment. I think it came off of an old ghetto Pirhanna (it was just something to mess around with until I got everything working). The hoses are macroline.

There's also the possibility that the Stabilizer might be causing the problem, I have it cranked all the way up, so I doubt it, but I could always be wrong.

[egb groupie]

I've never actually taken a valve completely apart (haven't owned a Mag long enough to need to) but I remember reading somewhere that the reg piston needs to be pushed out from behind(like the back of the valve) with a toothpick or something similar in size. I would definitely try and run a line straight from the ASA to the valve and see if airflow is your problem. If it works fine after that, then you know it's your stabilzer that's the problem. Also, I would not recommend running CO2 through macroline if that is what you are doing, over time liquid CO2 could weaken it and you eventually will have a blowout. Much safer to use SS braided hose when using CO2.

[chinstrap]

So I took the whole thing apart again. I pushed out the regulator piston and shined it up while looking for any kind of dirt/blockage, but nothing.

Then, I decided to remove the stabilizer and check for any kind of blockage in that region and I found a little piece of fuzz in the regulator valve spring. I removed it and figured I'd check everywhere else in case the fuzz had decided to seperate. I couldn't find anything, so I just plugged all the outside holes and blew into the back of the valve, hoping to dislodge anything that might be stuck in there.

Interesting thing I discovered when removing the on/off assembly is that my on/off O-ring is completely shot. As in crumbling and disintegrating. For kicks, I decided to gas up the marker and the springiness in the trigger is completely gone. The trigger is completely limp.

Is it possible that this may have caused the problem in the first place?
Would a deteriorating on/off O-ring have begun to prevent the marker from firing, but left the trigger springy, then graduated to leaving the trigger completely limp?

[Tool-of-death]

So I took the whole thing apart again. I pushed out the regulator piston and shined it up while looking for any kind of dirt/blockage, but nothing.

Then, I decided to remove the stabilizer and check for any kind of blockage in that region and I found a little piece of fuzz in the regulator valve spring. I removed it and figured I'd check everywhere else in case the fuzz had decided to seperate. I couldn't find anything, so I just plugged all the outside holes and blew into the back of the valve, hoping to dislodge anything that might be stuck in there.

Interesting thing I discovered when removing the on/off assembly is that my on/off O-ring is completely shot. As in crumbling and disintegrating. For kicks, I decided to gas up the marker and the springiness in the trigger is completely gone. The trigger is completely limp.

Is it possible that this may have caused the problem in the first place?
Would a deteriorating on/off O-ring have begun to prevent the marker from firing, but left the trigger springy, then graduated to leaving the trigger completely limp?

What does the Oring look like?

Also I you want to do step one in pneumagers guid just take the trigger frame off. the sear can be used like that.

Try gasing it up WITHOUT the palmer stabalizer, see what happens

[chinstrap]

What does the Oring look like?

Do you mean "which one is it?" or "what does it look like now that it's all mangled?"

In the case of the first one, it's the little O-ring that sits inside the big one at the top of the on/off assembly. It's the hard plastic-ish one.

In the case of the second one, it's kind of a star shape on the inside as opposed to circular. It definitely will not form a seal with the on/off pin now.

Try gasing it up WITHOUT the palmer stabalizer, see what happens

I was going to do that, but I haven't been able to get to the shop for the right length macroline and another elbow. I should be able to do it tomorrow, but now I need to wait until I get a parts kit for the replacement O-ring.

Looks like this project's on hold for a bit.