Closed Bolt Palmers vs Pnuemag

[Thotograph]

i know this forum is to compare blazers to pneumags but i think i have some interesting perspective to add...

i've got a rt and an e-cocker (99STO on steroids, evo ram w/ qev's etc. crazy fast!!) i like both but honestly i prefer my RT... and it has a stock single trigger frame (with a ult though)

i was all about going to a pneumag but now that i've been playing with different input pressures etc. i'm contemplating selling the cocker... 850 psi on an x-valve tuned right with lvl 10 and ult is un-freaking believable! the pull is nothing, miniscule at best! but for real it kicks my finger back so much so it's kinda hard to hold the trigger down without making a conscious effort. it rains paint when i want but also rocks the occasional snap shot like a champ.

so my advice is keep it simple... i worked really hard and spent alot of dough to get my cocker where it's at, and my mag is, for me, my first choice when i'm going out to play. i kno pretty well how to work on/maintain the cocker, i put the whole thing together myself, but it's the fact that i won't have to work on jack when i play my rt for 10 solid hours in one day... all i'll need to do is clean it a little and relube, and it's almost just as fast... a pneumag conv. would make it faster but i can't see a reason for needing more speed than this.

as for accuracy i can't tell a difference... i will say it's really nice not having to estimate the average size of a batch of paint so that it matches the barrel to the t!!! i just make sure they fall through without rolling around and thats it... makes it way better on gas that way and is plently accurate. to me the closed bolt doesn't provide any advantage, and it's not quieter at all.

at most i'm going to get a double trigger and install that on the stock frame. maybe an intelli is in my future but i doubt it. for now i know the cocker is gonna just lay there and look great. kinda like my ex-girlfriend always did...

lol come to think of it they're both high maintenence and they both cost me alot of money!

peace,
trevor


"i said dance!"
^

[p8ntbal4me]

i know this forum is to compare blazers to pneumags but i think i have some interesting perspective to add...

i've got a rt and an e-cocker (99STO on steroids, evo ram w/ qev's etc. crazy fast!!) i like both but honestly i prefer my RT... and it has a stock single trigger frame (with a ult though)

i was all about going to a pneumag but now that i've been playing with different input pressures etc. i'm contemplating selling the cocker... 850 psi on an x-valve tuned right with lvl 10 and ult is un-freaking believable! the pull is nothing, miniscule at best! but for real it kicks my finger back so much so it's kinda hard to hold the trigger down without making a conscious effort. it rains paint when i want but also rocks the occasional snap shot like a champ.

so my advice is keep it simple... i worked really hard and spent alot of dough to get my cocker where it's at, and my mag is, for me, my first choice when i'm going out to play. i kno pretty well how to work on/maintain the cocker, i put the whole thing together myself, but it's the fact that i won't have to work on jack when i play my rt for 10 solid hours in one day... all i'll need to do is clean it a little and relube, and it's almost just as fast... a pneumag conv. would make it faster but i can't see a reason for needing more speed than this.

as for accuracy i can't tell a difference... i will say it's really nice not having to estimate the average size of a batch of paint so that it matches the barrel to the t!!! i just make sure they fall through without rolling around and thats it... makes it way better on gas that way and is plently accurate. to me the closed bolt doesn't provide any advantage, and it's not quieter at all.

at most i'm going to get a double trigger and install that on the stock frame. maybe an intelli is in my future but i doubt it. for now i know the cocker is gonna just lay there and look great. kinda like my ex-girlfriend always did...

lol come to think of it they're both high maintenence and they both cost me alot of money!

peace,
trevor


"i said dance!"
^

What do you have for a frame on your cocker?? Reason I ask is,... you think your gun is fast now,... tell me you have an E-blade or wOrr Blade, Ill give you some settings,.. and I think you'll keep your cocker!

My brother got a DYE Reflex cocker with an E1 board in it. He let me have it for a day or 2 and on the day of playing at the field,... he shot 1 hopper off the cocker and put his E-Mag back in his bag. The thing is REDICULOUSLY FAST!!!! Like,... no way to be field legal fast!

The cocker SHOULD be more accurate. At high ROF I think it will spread more,.. but the shot pattern should be tighter than an R/T rapid firing for sure. (so says the data on the thred TK made about the various guns and shot patterns posted somewhere here on the AO)

Im doing a pneumag mod when my airwalk comes in. I think it will be a nice way to run my mag this comming season. I dont agree with the first posts in running CO2 into cockers and pneumags where there are QEVs, hoses, smaller o-rings, etc. I think thats asking for trouble. Do the guns work, of course! Cockers and mags have always worked. I just hated the days where liquid CO2 couldbe seen running from my 3-way to the ram,... and the expansion chambers were a nice frosty white. Todays preset HPA bottles pay for themselves in 1 season,.... using it 1 more season after that and you already have saved money.

Keeping it simple like you said, says it all. I think thats why I like mags over my other guns,.. simple... and simple works!

[Thotograph]

[QUOTE=p8ntbal4me]What do you have for a frame on your cocker?? Reason I ask is,... you think your gun is fast now,... tell me you have an E-blade or wOrr Blade, Ill give you some settings,.. and I think you'll keep your cocker!



haha ok so i think you're onto me here... reason i say that is i have the worrframe so i think my opinion would be swayed a little if i had adjustable computer controlled timing. if (and when) i replace it with an e2 off someone's predilled so and so... and do a little swapy swap. then i'll be livin. still, like you reitterated (and now i will do the same... again), i prefer to keep it simple

the accuracy may be slightly better with the cocker, but it's not enough for me to really notice. i think the quality of the paint along with decent barrel match is really the crucial determining factor for accuracy(consistency). bottom line is if you are a good shot and your gun is consistent thats what matters on the field.

if i could emplore a trigger frame on the sto that i truely trusted then my opinion would sway about what to do next with it.

i guess what's really up with me is that i'm old school at heart, but i also like technology to an extent. i started playing about ten years ago (when i was 12 first gun was a mag) and have been into it ever since. i'm not after the fastest possible rof. i'm just looking for quality, peace of mind, ease of use, and consistency. the speed is a bonus for me, and one that i'll rarely tap into. speedball has great profitability, but i don't own a field. if i had a chioce i'd play 80% in the woods and such, but it's just not feesable. at least i don't really know of any surviving outdoor fields in orlando with some traditional fields/games etc. there is wayne's world, rad place, but it's a hike so special occasions only. i'd start ranting more about this subject but this isn't the place. if anyone knows of any other fields like i described in central florida maybe they could pm me...

peace,
trevor

[p8ntbal4me]

Does your wOrr Blade have settings like (CDEL, COFF, DWELL, etc)???

I havent used a wOrr Blade yet so I wouldnt know,.. but if you have settings like these on the board,... give me the list and I will get you some values to try.

[Thotograph]

Does your wOrr Blade have settings like (CDEL, COFF, DWELL, etc)???

I havent used a wOrr Blade yet so I wouldnt know,.. but if you have settings like these on the board,... give me the list and I will get you some values to try.

to be clear... the worrblade was availible a while ago and was an eclispe e frame (i believe it may have been the e1 w/ a zero-b) packaged with a bolt and hammer upgrade from wgp (may have been other items like a ram as well). so this had adjustable timing and i'm sure is nice... i do not have this...

i have the worrframe, and it does not have any sort of timing adjustability other than the firing mode (psp, 3 shot psp, millenium,and nppl semi) and if the eye is on or off (if it's uhh not installed like mine then you get the picture...) for me i'm not going to drill my frame because i don't want to... i know it'd work much better and not chop but i'm not really into drilling holes in this gun. it's too cool looking for me. i think it changes the defaults with the eye off to try to minimize likelyhood of a chop but it just scares me.

honestly i just wish it had a classic mode where it would sync with the pull and release like it used too in the uhh other mode it was in, i'm simple minded i guess so simple things make me happy. the e2 would be great but it's a bit rare these days and therefore expensive. i'm gonna probably hold out and find a complete with a frame and do a swap and sell.

i love mags, and i love cockers... for different reasons. one appeals to me because it's a tank, and the other is alot of fun to tinker with and build up. to bring this full circle; i've always been a huge fan of palmers, and i would jump at a blazer or e-blazer in a heartbeat. they are like the ultimate of what both the mag and cocker have to offer. i just wished i could have it be threaded for cocker barrels so that ALL my barrels fit it. i talked to one of the employees at palmers and they said it's most likely possible but they aren't willing to do it or something like that. which is cool, i certainly trust that they know what they're doing. i do have a couple twist locks that i could get turned down... but their barrels are very high quality. still, what the heck am i saying??? i don't need another gun.

i just want one :)

peace,
trevor

[SR_matt]

if you are going to insist on running co2 the blazer will be able to do it with out having to set up anything more and end up spending less money (to run co2 on your mag you need an anti syphon and at least one palmers stab to keep liquid out (2 would be better) but then you have to worry about shoot down becasue it gets starved).

running co2 on higher end guns with tempermental parts you need to end up spending as much cash as just buying an hpa tank. unless hpa is imposiable to get there is no reason to not use it over co2 on the highend/high rate of fire guns.

personaly i use co2 on my pump gun, palmers stab and gas thru, i get +- 2 fps as long as i dont let it sit for a while (if i do the fps will drop down to 250's instead of upper 270s but just for the first shot, havent figured that one out yet).


co2 will end up working better on the blazer IMHO.
-matt

[Thotograph]

co2 will end up working better on the blazer IMHO.
-matt

i agree with matt. the blazer would be the best choice for co2... it's rock solid like the mag but doesn't have as many orings to freeze up.

i would say that in my own past experiance the classic mag i used to own didn't like back bottle with an expansion chamber so i ran it remote and then i never had issues after that. occasionally my butt would get cold and i would get some shootdown with rapid firing, but it worked quite well.

[matteusz]

i agree with matt. the blazer would be the best choice for co2... it's rock solid like the mag but doesn't have as many orings to freeze up.

i would say that in my own past experiance the classic mag i used to own didn't like back bottle with an expansion chamber so i ran it remote and then i never had issues after that. occasionally my butt would get cold and i would get some shootdown with rapid firing, but it worked quite well.

Yeah the blazer for simplicity and running co2 at a higher rate of fire probably would be my weapon of choice. However I am going to SLOWER rate of fire and so what more than a mag do I need? I may even end up playing more with a stock class marker and I find skill more attractive than spending $ on paint. All the same for HPA and higher rate of fire I would rather have a pneumag that can go fast and more can be done. Thanks all Mat

[SR_matt]

i think you might have misundserstood. the blazer can handle co2 going through it faster because the way it just deals with it better, ther pneumag wont preform as well probably just because the way it functions and the psi requirements
-matt

[matteusz]

i think you might have misundserstood. the blazer can handle co2 going through it faster because the way it just deals with it better, ther pneumag wont preform as well probably just because the way it functions and the psi requirements
-matt

No I get it. I am talking about running air on a pneumag (read the post more carefully) for really high rates of fire. The blazer does great (even though PPS recommends stablizers for co2 use) to a point but if you want to shoot past say 15 bps a pnuemag on HPA would be a better choice IMHO. Since the mag can shoot faster and do more. But no I get it blazer better on CO2 but WITH a stablizer. As is I would rather shoot a mag on a remote like I do now.

[p8ntbal4me]

Not that this would be crazy efficiancy over just throwing a HPA bottle on the pneumag,...

But you could set up a remote bottle or an on-gun setup to split the feed on the pneumag internals to go through a Stably, in-line filter, etc to prevent the liquid build up at high ROF.

Personally I agree with the not using CO2 on the pneumag setup for reasons listed above.

But if your going to run C02,... you could always filter and run it inline a bunch of times to help it expand as much as possible.

Just an idea.

[SR_matt]

sorry bout that matt, i saw that after you posted again

p8ntbal4me, filters mostly were more hype and didnt work right (from eveything ive seen and the little experance i had ). if liquid gets to it your gona get it through or its gona totaly freeze up for the most up. co2 is a lot cleaner than peopel give it credit also, tha tanks dont (or at elast shouldnt have) any corosion in the them and its pure co2 so theres no dirt in it (or at least less than hpa that was compressed on sight)

-matt

[p8ntbal4me]

sorry bout that matt, i saw that after you posted again

p8ntbal4me, filters mostly were more hype and didnt work right (from eveything ive seen and the little experance i had ). if liquid gets to it your gona get it through or its gona totaly freeze up for the most up. co2 is a lot cleaner than peopel give it credit also, tha tanks dont (or at elast shouldnt have) any corosion in the them and its pure co2 so theres no dirt in it (or at least less than hpa that was compressed on sight)

-matt

I think were in the same boat as far as knowledge in this department goes.

I do have a inline filter from PTP on my Sniper 2 and my Classic Mini Mag. The filter has been on both since time began so over the years I have not noticed much difference in the performance upon switching to HPA.

I do clean the filter out every year like it said to in the instructions,.. but its kinda a self check (C02 has never deposited gunk in the filter,.. but I clean it anyways)

Most of the places I go to get my tanks filled double filter the compressed gas before going into the bulk tanks. My local dive shop allows me to fill off the NOX side of the compressor, which according to the owner is at a minimum of 4x filtration plus some other stuff in the tanks. So I dont have a real issue with dirty air getting into my tanks.

What I was thinking of was back when HPA was not on the market yet and I had my mini mag setup on remote. It went from a 20oz CO2 bottle to an ASA, into a horizontal vert hardline that had another ASA with a 4 stage expansion chamber on it. Then it dumped out the top of tha to a 1/8 remote coil mamba line to a duck bill with quick disco. From there it went to a 1/8 hardline into the bottom of another vert. 4 stage expansion chamber that mounted into the ASA on the gun,... then ran a line from the ASA through the PTP inline filter, quick disco., then the valve.

I wish I had a photo but I dont. You can get the idea. That was a typical remote setup for classic valved mags back then. I had VERY little issues when I fired fast. (remember,.. fast back then was 9BPS!!!!)

I know a field owner that had the (or one of the) origninal Glenn Palmer Blazer proto-types. It had some issues,.. but yes,... it worked awesome on co2. I would venture to say that it was the best gun on co2 at the time.

I know the basics and maybe a bit more only because I follow the sport in detail for my own gain. I hardly run co2 now only because its expensive.

[SR_matt]

hmm your lucky, dive shop air is gona be much cleaner (since it legaly must be cleaner) than most air at fields.

i had a rather indepth argument with my friend about how co2 will work an ony gun with the right reg set up but he woudltn listen, supposedly co2 is dirty and hpa compressors have so many scrubers and filters to make the air very clean... ya right, a pure gas has mroe dirt than air that was pulled from the surrounding area and ran through a cheap filter system that didnt pull everything out and hasnt been empied by the guy "running" it lately
-matt

[Thotograph]

lol, i hope dive air is clean... when i'm 2 or 3 atm's down i don't want to think about what i'm breathing in... only real concern is how much longer do i have to be breathing this stuff before i should be riding up the water column towards air that isn't compressed into a cylinder for my breathing pleasure. hmm not a bad idea to get fills from a scuba shop... i might try that. what pressure can they fill up to?

i just got a classic valve for just in case there's no air available, and also to build a "friends gun" or potentially to build a project i've been thinking of... (bull-pup styled pneumag w/ a qloader) you never know... once i start replacing a few things on my rt that i got i'll have this spare mag sorted out... i think i'm gonna get a luke's vert feed mod done to a classic feed body... more or less i miss shooting my two favorite twist lock barrels that i've hung onto (pmi perfect 11in and a 10in dye stainless)