My Pneumag and Lvl 10 middle spring woes!

[Hilltop Customs]

for a quick way to test if the extra return force on the trigger will help....grab a pen and pull out the spring stretch it or cut it to make it fit in the frame. If you have to stretch it, try to only do it on one half of the spring....it will help keep the spring soft as possible. then just put it between the back of the frame and the msv2 lever. Its kindof a temporary solution, but its basically free and it will let you see if extra return force will help.

[longi]

for a quick way to test if the extra return force on the trigger will help....grab a pen and pull out the spring stretch it or cut it to make it fit in the frame. If you have to stretch it, try to only do it on one half of the spring....it will help keep the spring soft as possible. then just put it between the back of the frame and the msv2 lever. Its kindof a temporary solution, but its basically free and it will let you see if extra return force will help.

I've been thinking about that, i'll be trying that mod over the next few days. I'll be filling my dive bottle today so i've got plently of air to play with.

[longi]

Ok, i think i have it, i think it's my preset reg. What's hapenning is this, with a full(ish) tank of air (3000 psi) i can walk the trigger down to about 1500-1600 psi where upon i'm then unable to walk the trigger down further than that using the middle spring. Using the short spring i can walk down to 1000 psi. Having worked out that this is the problem, the next question is...If i had an adjustable reg on my 68/4500 tank, and adjusted the input air to around say 900 psi would i be able to walk the trigger down past 1500 psi and all the way down to around 1000 psi? As the input pressure may be slightly higher it might give a more consistant feed into the main valve and LPR. What do you think?

[Mongoose]

Yeah..i dont think its your setup at all.....i think its your tank reg.
try using a different tank if you can.

your lever on the 3-way is short so it should have no problem returning. using a magnet mod might not help either, unless you want a stiffer pull

[Mechanic79]

Ok, i think i have it, i think it's my preset reg. What's hapenning is this, with a full(ish) tank of air (3000 psi) i can walk the trigger down to about 1500-1600 psi where upon i'm then unable to walk the trigger down further than that using the middle spring. Using the short spring i can walk down to 1000 psi. Having worked out that this is the problem, the next question is...If i had an adjustable reg on my 68/4500 tank, and adjusted the input air to around say 900 psi would i be able to walk the trigger down past 1500 psi and all the way down to around 1000 psi? As the input pressure may be slightly higher it might give a more consistant feed into the main valve and LPR. What do you think?

An interesting observation, not that it solves your specific issues but,

I am using ULT with level X (longest spring, tightest o-ring). When I use a higher amount of ULT shims, 5-6, I can only shoot down to about 1100 psi. when I use 2 ULT shims I can shoot below 600 psi.
I'm using an adjustable nitro duck tank, output pressure just under 800 psi.

[Mongoose]

An interesting observation, not that it solves your specific issues but,

I am using ULT with level X (longest spring, tightest o-ring). When I use a higher amount of ULT shims, 5-6, I can only shoot down to about 1100 psi. when I use 2 ULT shims I can shoot below 600 psi.
I'm using an adjustable nitro duck tank, output pressure just under 800 psi.

im using a PE and croosfire tank 800-850psi and can only shoot to 1000psi without problems

[longi]

I am using ULT with level X (longest spring, tightest o-ring). When I use a higher amount of ULT shims, 5-6, I can only shoot down to about 1100 psi. when I use 2 ULT shims I can shoot below 600 psi.

I'm waiting for some parts from AGD including the red/brown o ring that seals the power tube thread. It seem to have perished on my modified Retro valve. As soon as the order arrives i'll ressurect the ULT option in my second valve and run some tests. I didn't have much luck first time around with my ULT as it came apart and of course it wouldn't work properly. It's amazing that just 3 shims can make so much difference to performance/efficiency. How do the 2 ULT setups compare when shooting?

im using a PE and croosfire tank 800-850psi and can only shoot to 1000psi without problems

Which spring do you use in this setup? Do you also use the ULT?

[Mechanic79]

I'm waiting for some parts from AGD including the red/brown o ring that seals the power tube thread. It seem to have perished on my modified Retro valve. As soon as the order arrives i'll ressurect the ULT option in my second valve and run some tests. I didn't have much luck first time around with my ULT as it came apart and of course it wouldn't work properly. It's amazing that just 3 shims can make so much difference to performance/efficiency. How do the 2 ULT setups compare when shooting?

Actually it's amazing how just ONE ult shim can make a difference. I learned this lesson my old devilmag. it would ONLY work with 4 shims and the field strip screw just hand tight. shot reliable all day long after I figured this out. I never used the allen key to tighten it down.

I just rechrono'd my pneumag today. I CAN WALK IT while shooting paint. I CAN NOT walk it dry firing. again I have the longest level X spring and tightest o-ring. I also have the minimum possible trigger travel to cycle the gun properly. Tank pressure is around 770 psi

[longi]

I just rechrono'd my pneumag today. I CAN WALK IT while shooting paint. I CAN NOT walk it dry firing. again I have the longest level X spring and tightest o-ring. I also have the minimum possible trigger travel to cycle the gun properly.

That's interesting, i'm almost sold on an adjustable reg. I reckon the higher pressure from adjustable reg would increase the rate of fire and help with walking the trigger, when there is only 1500 psi left in the bottle. Hmmm....

[the electrician]

it's because of the amount of air needed to fire the gun has increased, stiffer spring, means more pressure to overcome it, same size chamber with more pressure means you are using more air pershot. this means more cu. in. of air per sec too.

I did some tests a while back, and so did another guy, but basically feeding the gun higher pressure can help with the problem. it can increase the possible ROF before shootdown. even on a classic valve.

I also ported out the passage between the on/off and the reg that I noticed was restricted in the classic.

also using a quad o-ring on the on/off helped a bit with air flow when used in conjuction with shims.

the fact that you couldn't do it dry firing is proof that it's about the pressure, and filling the chamber. more air takes more time to fill the chamber per a given orfice size, even though higher pressure air moves a bit faster. plus with dry firing, your dumping the chamber just about all the down-no ball to create back pressure.

personally, I like using the stock spring with my lvl10 set-up. lowest possible pressure and still get the anti-chop benefits. that's just me though.

[longi]

the electrician it's because of the amount of air needed to fire the gun has increased, stiffer spring, means more pressure to overcome it, same size chamber with more pressure means you are using more air pershot. this means more cu. in. of air per sec too.

So, if i get an adjustable reg and increase the pressure for example to 900 psi, because of the extra pressure increasing the rate of fire am i going lose yet more shot per shot tank efficiency?...Oh the quandry!!

personally, I like using the stock spring with my lvl10 set-up. lowest possible pressure and still get the anti-chop benefits. that's just me though.

The short spring is my preference too, but i'm still having paint chops, however i've changed all the o rings and the gun feels like a much tighter package altogether. I'm playing again in a couple of weeks so i'll retest it some more.

[Mechanic79]

it's because of the amount of air needed to fire the gun has increased, stiffer spring, means more pressure to overcome it, same size chamber with more pressure means you are using more air pershot. this means more cu. in. of air per sec too.

This seems to make sense.

also using a quad o-ring on the on/off helped a bit with air flow when used in conjuction with shims.

I've heard of this, i'm going to attempt it.

the fact that you couldn't do it dry firing is proof that it's about the pressure, and filling the chamber. more air takes more time to fill the chamber per a given orfice size, even though higher pressure air moves a bit faster. plus with dry firing, your dumping the chamber just about all the down-no ball to create back pressure.

interesting. This even happens with Chem's RT ULE with level-X and ULT. walks fine with paint and doesn't walk with out paint. though it still cycles fast.

personally, I like using the stock spring with my lvl10 set-up. lowest possible pressure and still get the anti-chop benefits. that's just me though.

You will still chop with the stock spring which is why the medium or longest spring are required for optimal anti-chop according to the AGD Level X tuning guide.



LONGI, try shooting your gun WITH paint. and chrono it.

[longi]

Mechanic79

LONGI, try shooting your gun WITH paint. and chrono it.

Ah ha! In fact i already do, the only trouble is, is i'm firing into a kids school playing field!! So i'm a bit limited to shooting without getting complaints! Although it's on the cards 'cos i can't wait too much longer without ripping some paint out. (My missus will also beat me up!)

interesting. This even happens with Chem's RT ULE with level-X and ULT. walks fine with paint and doesn't walk with out paint. though it still cycles fast.

As soon as i get home when there is some daylight left i'll check it out with the middle spring and some paint.

[Mongoose]

I'm waiting for some parts from AGD including the red/brown o ring that seals the power tube thread. It seem to have perished on my modified Retro valve. As soon as the order arrives i'll ressurect the ULT option in my second valve and run some tests. I didn't have much luck first time around with my ULT as it came apart and of course it wouldn't work properly. It's amazing that just 3 shims can make so much difference to performance/efficiency. How do the 2 ULT setups compare when shooting?



Which spring do you use in this setup? Do you also use the ULT?

im using the gold spring and ult with at least 5 shims

[Mechanic79]

AGD Level X guide says you will still get chops with the stock gold spring and need to use the middle or longest spring for best anti chop results. Of course moving up to the higher pressure springs you need to crank up the reg to compensate which seems is causing walkability issues without paint.

I've always used the longest spring on my emag and x-valves with great results.

It seems many of the posters here use level X with the stock gold spring. How is it on paint? Level 7 is hard on paint even with a foamie. Thanks for any input.