Looking at purchasing some welding equipment. Help a newb!

[Pneumagger]

Well, I recently picked up a 9"x19" lathe to add to my assortment of necessary furniture. Yes... furniture. Couches and bedsets can wait - my workshop will be the first furnished room in my house. I'm looking into getting a small worksop going in my basement and really only need a welder and bandsaw to finish covering the essentials (mill, lathe, bandsaw, grinder, drill, dremel, welder). I'd like to be self sufficient person as much as can be. Some of the first items on my agenda are finishing/improving my homemade spool valve paintball gun, being able to do more work better for guys on AO/PBN, and a making a few silencers (I figure I can just save $$$ instead of purchasing them).

So I'm a bit of a newb when it comes to welding. Seen it done a bunch, laid a few (ugly) beads myself, and have a grasp on the basic concepts. I don't see myself ever needing more than 3/16" of penetration. I'll mostly be doing .050" and .125" thick parts and tubing. Mostly stainless - rarely regular steel. Possibly aluminum if I get good. I don't mind cleaning up unsightly MIG/arc welds so I'm not sure the complexity of TIG suits me - I just want accurate strong welds. I'm looking at some smaller Harbor Frieght models because they are local to me and fit the budget.

90amp 115V Flux-Wire Welder $130 - is this really as good as MIG welding? Seems like a glorified arc welder to me.
130/90amp 220V TIG/Arc combo welder $290 - Now we're talking. Pricey, but seems very useful.
30-140amp 110/220V Arc Welder (Refurbished) $80 - Simple brute force welding.
100amp 220V Wire Flux and MIG welder (Refurbished) $150 - Now this seems like a nice all around choice. Wire flux for simplicity and MIG for a bit more class.

Will I need more powerful welders for what I want to do?
One of my concerns is that my electric box in the house is only 100amp (very recently rewired) and the house is older (mid 1940's).
Will this be a problem? Many of these welders push 90-100+ amps
What works best - 115V or 220V? Does it matter?
Is a different welding setup needed for aluminum? I've never welded aluminum.
Am I better off served by just taking parts to a welder to have done? What is the cost of having a welder do stuff for me?
Any good sites on learning to weld good?

[luke]

I don't see myself ever needing more than 3/16" of penetration. I'll mostly be doing .050" and .125" thick parts and tubing. Mostly stainless

Just like any machine, you will almost always wish is was bigger.


Buying small welders in my opinion is a big mistake.

- rarely regular steel. Possibly aluminum if I get good. I don't mind cleaning up unsightly MIG/arc welds so

I'm not sure the complexity of TIG suits me - I just want accurate strong welds. I'm looking at some

OK, a little lesson,

Mig welder, Aluminum:

Welding Aluminum you will need a spool gun because the wire is too soft to be pushed through the housing from the machine. Prices start at $250 up to over $1200 (depends on the size of machine you have.)

You will also need a gas bottle using 100% Argon.

Mig welder, Stainless:

Gasses used (Cied from the Lincoln Site)

The shielding gas recommended for short-circuiting welding of stainless-steel contains 90% helium, 7.5% argon, and 2.5% carbon dioxide. The gas gives the most desirable bead contour while keeping the CO2 level low enough so that it does not influence the corrosion resistance of the metal. High inductance in the output is beneficial when using this gas mixture.

Single-pass welds may also be made by using argon-CO2 gas.

Stainless wire can be mounted in the machine.

Mig Welder, Steel

Gas needed:
75% argon and 25% CO2.

There are guys that use 100% CO2, but I don't think it makes a nice weld.

As you can see the MIG is a diverse welder, but lot's of gas will need to be on hand to cover the 3 types of metal. Tanks are a little pricey but it doesn't make sense to rent them in my opinion.

TIG welding/ Heliarc


It's fairly tricky to pick up because you use both hands a foot pedal, but it is the most diverse welder out there.

Gas: 100% Argon can be used for ALL metal.

Nothing special you have to do or change to switch between metals. But, even being diverse you only tend to use it on certain projects that need to be very clean because of the amount of time that goes into the prep work, and it a little finicky and time consuming to do.

Arc Welding

I really would not suggest an Arc welder, it's just not diverse, it's tricky to weld small gauge stuff. I ran an arc welder from age 14-30's, I sold it to force my self to purchase a nice Miller Mig.

smaller Harbor Frieght models because they are local to me and fit the budget.

Not a good investment. I would look into a Miller.

I would for sure stay away for flux wire set ups, they suck, go for a machine that uses a shielding gas.

Will I need more powerful welders for what I want to do?

Once you start welding you will find that you need around 250 amp welder for purpose welding. I wouldn't own anything less.

One of my concerns is that my electric box in the house is only 100amp (very recently rewired) and the house is older (mid 1940's).
Will this be a problem? Many of these welders push 90-100+ amps

What works best - 115V or 220V? Does it matter?

But that isn't the amperage that is pulled from your breaker box. I know that large welders only use a power cord rated at 50 Amps, you can't find a bigger rated cord. I looked when I build my 120 cubic foot powder coating oven.

Is a different welding setup needed for aluminum?

Yes, see above.

I've never welded aluminum.
Am I better off served by just taking parts to a welder to have done? What is the cost of having a welder do stuff for me?

Our local shop charges $60 hr (plus) and a 1 hour minium. Aluminum is VERY tricky to weld. It's hit and miss when I weld it. My biggest problem is I've never been schooled for it.

Any good sites on learning to weld good?

Good stuff can be found all over the internet.


There really isn't a welder that will suite all conditions all the time. I have 3 set ups, but sold my arc welder as I stated above.

Miller Mig


Lincoln TIG


Oxy/Acetylene



On a side note, if you are a DIY guy, once you start welding the sky is the limit on the stuff you will be doing for yourself. I've easily made my money back 100x fold on my investment.

[luke]

By the way,

I use the MIG for all general purpose work in steel because it quick and easy.

I use my TIG for:
Stainless. (Like feed tube mods)
The little bit of aluminum I've done.
And for sheet metal work (motorcycle tins etc.)
And, anything that I want to avoid "splatter" on.

The Oxy/Acet. is mostly for cutting and heating, although back in the day I could run a pretty nice bead with the gas torch. It's just too time consuming to mess with when you have other options.

[Spider-TW]

Don't forget the plasma cutter table (and exhaust fan).

I've seen a few full time industrial guys make some super work with migs. They use mig most of the time unless the steel is a particular variety or shape that they need to use sticks on. I can pick up a stick and weld steel mostly sturdy if not pretty, but professional shop guys seem to be the only ones with enough practice to keep a decent tig weld (and tip) going. I've watched other people fight tigs too. It reminds me of brazing and that's a lot of coordination in both hands for me. Once you pop the tip, it's back to the grinder.

A farmer friend bought a couple of those 'suit-case' welders (second one after the other proved worthless). The second one could barely fix lawn furniture. I would love to have my father's gas powered lincoln at my house, but i don't think my neighbors would feel the same.

[paintball72]

well id like to help but it seems luke has given all the info there is to give and i mostly do heavy duty repaire work on trucks and tractors with a massive arc welder or a stick welder. fun stuff but it doesnt seem that that is what your looking for.

[Pneumagger]

The only reason I really NEED a welder at this point is to work on larger rifle cans I have planned (5.56/.308/.338) - although I'm sure I'll find all sorts of uses for it once it arrives. Typically, the can's baffle stack is assembled then welded together structurally (1/16" wall thicknesses)... afterward the stack is inserted/pressed into the the outer suppressor tube (again 1/16" thick) where it is welded in place around the endcaps. The welds that hold the baffle stack together need to be filed or turned down so the stack can fit in the outer tube. Ultimately, you want as little part distortion as possible so everything is concentric. When a bullet strikes a baffle it's pretty bad to say the least. This is my biggest concern - not weld prettiness.

Generally, small caliber and pistol cans are either press fit or have a threaded assembly with thread locking agent to seal them permanently. They'e also generally mostly aluminum construction.

Here's a pictrue of an AAC 5.56 can... notice they used plug hole welds to attach the outer tube to the inner baffle stack. The inner core is welded together underneath.

http://www.silencertests.com/tests/5-06-05-5.56mm/images/AAC-M42000-b-1200.jpg

Here is a CAD of a 9mm Submachine/Pistol can I'm going to be making... it's probably not going to be welded because there is AL and SS parts.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g45/jrm33/CAD%20Stuff/Suppressors/Quick_Pic.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g45/jrm33/CAD%20Stuff/Suppressors/ENYO9MM.jpg

[Pneumagger]

I know it's smaller than a 250A MIG, but it seems fine for my current welding requirements and seems like something good to learn the ropes on.
I'm not even sure I'll be welding enough to justify the purchase of my own bottles or an aluminum wire feeder - let alone a 250A+ welder.

$280 CLARKE Mig Welder 180EN
http://cgi.ebay.com/CLARKE-Mig-Welde...QQcmdZViewItem

What would it take to get cooking on stainless? Just some gas and a regulator?
Also, what about PPE? I assume you can't just wear shorts and a tank top with some Ray Bans while welding...

[luke]

The only reason I really NEED a welder at this point is to work on larger rifle cans I have planned (5.56/.308/.338) - although I'm sure I'll find all sorts of uses for it once it arrives. Typically, the can's baffle stack is assembled then welded together structurally (1/16" wall thicknesses)... afterward the stack is inserted/pressed into the the outer suppressor tube (again 1/16" thick) where it is welded in place around the endcaps. The welds that hold the baffle stack together need to be filed or turned down so the stack can fit in the outer tube. Ultimately, you want as little part distortion as possible so everything is concentric. When a bullet strikes a baffle it's pretty bad to say the least. This is my biggest concern - not weld prettiness.

Generally, small caliber and pistol cans are either press fit or have a threaded assembly with thread locking agent to seal them permanently. They'e also generally mostly aluminum construction.

Here's a pictrue of an AAC 5.56 can... notice they used plug hole welds to attach the outer tube to the inner baffle stack. The inner core is welded together underneath.

http://www.silencertests.com/tests/5-06-05-5.56mm/images/AAC-M42000-b-1200.jpg

Here is a CAD of a 9mm Submachine/Pistol can I'm going to be making... it's probably not going to be welded because there is AL and SS parts.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g4.../Quick_Pic.jpg http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g45/jrm33/ENYO9MM.jpg

From what you described here I would say you need to invest in a TIG welder. A MIG would get the job done but it won't be very clean. I've done a ton of sheet metal work with my MIG (built a dash board for my S10 and several body panels, just before I got the TIG) but after I started using the TIG it opened up a new world of fine quality welds. I would never atempt some of the projects I've done in the past with Gas, Arc or MIG now that I've got the TIG.

I suggest you contact your local welding supply store(s), not (Home Depot or Harbor Frieght etc) and see what they have any used. It's a great way to pick up a quality welder for about 1/3 the price of new. Most of the time they will set you up with lots of extras to make a sell. They generally get the machines as trade ins against new machines, refurbish them, then re-sell.

I picked up my Lincoln Square Wave (TIG) used from my supply guy at huge discount. He set me up with Tungston, filler rod, gas shields for nothing. The machine has been 100% trouble free.

I'm a Miller guy but the Lincoln has been a great machine.

[maniacmechanic]

go Tig , once you get it down , you won't have to clean up your welds , full penatration with no hump to grind , hit it with a wire wheel & your done , you can also weld anything with it
Like Luke said spend the extra money & get a quaility set up , it will make it a lot easier & produce better work

[Pneumagger]

Allright... thanks for the help. I'll invest in a small/medium TIG machine.
I won't need the machine for some while - so I'll just keep my eyes peeled on the used market.

Maybe I'll get it for the Mrs. for Christmas.
"Hey honey! I got you a Lincoln TIG Welder... and your stockings are full of TIG consumables!!"

[Toll]

I'll be honest, I lulz'ed pretty hard at "Can cause cancer or discomfort"

[Pneumagger]

I'll be honest, I lulz'ed pretty hard at "Can cause cancer or discomfort"

I butchered up the quote some to add some spice to the can - and projected sketches onto solids can be pain in the butt to change (so it's staying in the pics).

The actual quote i was inspired by goes something like, "Warning: Guns are known to cause fear and mild discomfort in the State of California."

[dcent]

LINCOLN OR MILLER!

as everyone else has allready stated dont do flux core. you will have to clean your liner and you will not get as nice welds as if you used a shielding gas.

argon argon argon. straight co2 sucks. you can use 100% argon on stainless.

if you plan on doing stainless and aluminum and PAINTBALL STUFF then get a TIG torch aswell. it will prove to be well worth it.

lincoln or miller, tig torch as well as wire. shielding gass. also get a bunch of scrap metal to practice on. bear in mind that you must travel quickly when welding alluminum and stainless warps very quickly. dont over heat stainless. if your finished weld does NOT have a rainbow look ( it turned grey ) then it aint stainless anymore.
NEVER use the same wire wheel on stainless as you do on mild steel as you will contaminate the stainless. dont even keep your stainless tools in the same tool box as your mild steel tools.and get a seperate angle grinder for your stainless too. ( maybe going overboard but when your "stainless" starts rusting you will understand what I mean )

have fun.

I quit welding because stainless fumes give you cancer, flux core gives you cancer, metal core gives you cancer, aluminum gives you parkinsons and alzheimers, welders have problems getting MRI's due to the high content of metal in their lungs ( grinding )....... that being said, when your lid is down and you smell something burning that is NOT metal and your pretty sure its your pants but you cant put it out untill your done this creamy bead is a pretty cool feeling.

have fun! and if you want to do paintball stuff get a tig torch... you will master it in a matter of months.

[dcent]

I assume you can't just wear shorts and a tank top with some Ray Bans while welding...

hahahaha.....awesome.

with tig you dont have to worry about the sparts, but the light from the weld will give you a horrible sun burn. ( weld for 2 solid hours no sleeves and expect to peel like a banana on laundry day )

tig you only really need a black long sleeve T and jeans and a lid ( 20$ for a cheapy )
get some different shades of lenses and gold lenses are the best (IMO) because they dont tint everything orange or blue like most lenses, you get a real natural color. gold lenses are my personal fav.

[Dukie]

I picked up a flux core unit , it sucks.

One thing I guarantee you will love is a auto darkening helmet. If you are just learning, it's the best possible thing you can buy. I was forever moving the tip when flipping the helmet down. sparks and burned feed tips all over the place!