What Is an Automag and how do I make one

[Dend78]

depends on the type of rail you are talking about for a tac one the original rail that it came out with or one of the custom rails that some of our craftier ones here mill out? there is or was one for sale in the section here on the board that was already milled with the rail look. the original rails are eaiser to come by and a lil cheaper good luck on your mag and dont hesitate to ask questions

[DevilMan]

I would think your best bet is to cruise the BST forum here at AO.

You can pick up a fully functioning ready to go rig and be playing within a handful of days.

Best of luck to ya,

DM

[roxcreek]

thanks you guys, I think I'm gonna go with building my mag from scratch, just have it as my rock solid first 'mag that I can depend on then upgrade later.

[gommie404]

machine shop

hi there seeing as like me you have access to a machine shop.
the best thing for you to do is just get your self a basic classic set up. < cheap >
as a base to build on.

there are many trigger frames that can be made to fit .
but the intelli frame < from agd > is very well made.

if you have access to a mill or lathe then there no stopping what you can do

i make some very funky stuff my self.

+ when your doing parts for your self you can spend as much time as you like.

good luck and post a few photos as you go

[roxcreek]

Thanks for the great advice! I am kinda low budget at the moment, so getting the intelliframe isn't viable at the moment. I will definately design some frame for myself and share them with you guys so I know what I can mill and what I can't.

I have been thinking a lot about the pros and cons of making an electro-mag from a spyder frame. I think I'm gonna get a 68 classic, tinker around with making that better, than I'll go and build an electro from the ground up.

What're you guys's collections like?

[FiXeL]

Save up for a intelli... Awesome gripframes and very easy to modify to a pneu setup. Spyder or any other E-gripframe can be modified to fit a mag. I've seen spyder, ego, DM, and even E-blades on a mag. If its worth it? Well thats up to you. Personally i'm not that much into e-guns, and i'm rebuilding (finishing) my pneumag and im not sure if i will go e-pneu or just leave it pneu yet.

Collection?

Well i have a few mags. Got two X's, E-tac, pneu-ed tac one, (working on) minimag, minimag project gun, Gen2 micromag, nelspot 007, VSC phantom, VM-68, and a X7.

[roxcreek]

well your tag underneath your name certainly befits you. I can REALLY appreciatet somebody with a big gun collection. I'm only at three right now, but I would like to add three automags, an F8 or Threshold and a pump gun to my collection.

Out of three markers the only one that I really chose to buy was my Promaster: My tippmann 98c was (of course) my first paintball marker. The PCS US5 was a prize for being on the winning team at a big game (they gave one to everybody on the winning team)

Thanks for the advice about the Intelliframe, My upgrades are probably gonna be something like: BASIC SETUP> lvl 10 > x valve and ULE Trigger kit> Intelliframe > Pneumaticize.

What do you guys do for extra money to spend on ur mags?

[FiXeL]

It used to be alot more... At one time i had like 17 markers in my home, and i'm really trying to cut down on my gun whoring.... Down to 10 now, so i'm not complaining.

And on Mcarterbrown.com there are countless people that have and had way more than i ever owned....

With the pneu thing you dont want ULT, trust me. It should work with an RT on/off or something messed up during the build. Pneu isnt everything i've discovered... Read about it in the deep blue subforum about balls breaking in the tip of the barrel. There's something with mech pneu's that's causing ball breaks in the end of the barrel. I have a theory about it, but since it's only that, and i dont have the time or will to research it, i cannot prove anything. E-pneu's dont have this problem however, but those are a bit challenging to build. If you really want a fast mag that shoots great? You might want to go the E-pneu route. Mech pneu is ok, and it shoots resonably well if properly tuned. But it's tricky not to shoot too fast, or you will get those breaks in the end of your barrel.

With my pneu its shooting very well if i have over 2K psi pressure in the tank, after that performance goes down. I'm thinking its A: the ram does not reset fast enough, and B: the dropping input pressure (recharge) presses with less pressure on the RT on/off, that helps pushing the ram back a little. Maybe with some tinkering it could be improved, but i'm happy with how it works right now. If the tank pressure drops, im back to semi and that works fine in the woods.

[LK-13]

it's funny.
I know what I'm doing when I build a gun,
but this thread was a huge help anyway.
great supply source!

nice work guys!

[roxcreek]

I'm really glad to be a part of helping someone. I wanna thank you guys in turn for helping me with my questions

Back to business:

FiXel, you should say what you're theory about the pneu is, no harm in that.

The plan I have with my future mag collection is that I'll have one mechanical that I can use on rainy days, and as a gun I can tinker with and understand. One Electro for performance and tournaments and a third one as an ongoing project that I can just fool around with.

I have been wondering about something in the pneumag setup...
When the LP air is sent from the trigger valve up to the actuatorit sits there until the trigger moves back into place. Then the trigger vlave valve shuts and lets the air out of the actuator. What happens to that LP air?

-Is it just vented into the trigger frame?
-Could that air be used to push the trigger back into place? (like a spring assist or spring replacement)

[roxcreek]

Solenoids

I know the three basic types of solenoids are:
-electromechanical: a pin is driven back and forth by an electric current, the pin can be connected to any manner of plates orother parts. (Example: E-Mag, Spyder) the mechanical solenoids require more battery power since they are directly driving whatever it is they are attached to.

-electropneumatic: the solenoid acts as a valve that re-directs air to external devices, most often a actuator. (example: Eclipse ego, Impulse, Promaster, etc) Electropneumatic solenoids are almost always accompanied by an LPR. Since the solenoid is only driving the switch that controls air flow, these require much less battery power. The real driving force is that of the compressed air in the actuator.

-electorhydraulic: works in the same way as an electropneumatic solenoid except instead of gas it uses fluids. (I don't know any examples of electohydraulic solenoids in the paintball industry.

Mechanical solenoids are the easy way out, they are a single part that can just be attached to the sear, almost like a mechanical finger. Pneumatic solenoids are more efficent, but require the intallation of an actuator, an LPR and hosing to connect it all (in addition to the motherboard, battery, wiring and trigger-switch/microswitch, which both solenoids require)

I think the reason on one uses hydro is because of the chance of oxidization aka rust, and the danger of short circuiting anything electric.

Does anyone know which is faster: pneumatic or mechanical?

Does anyone know some companies/laboratories/universities that mass produce either of the two solenoids above?

Does anyone have anything more to add to my noid-rant?

[FiXeL]

Well, what i theorise on pneumags that break paint in the tip of the barrel (and mine does too) is this:

There is one ball that is caught up by the next ball shot, causing gunk in the barrel, but only at the tip. Now RT style valves have a insane high recharge rate so this could not be the problem. But with pneumags, you need a pneumatic ram (MPA-3) to actuate the sear.

What i think happens is that the ram does not reset fully when firing fast, thus the on/off pin is mostly in the closed position, or unable to open fully. This could result in a dump chamber that only has been filled partially because the on/off only opened partially.

About your noid rant: For mags i would go the pneu solenoid route... The emags have a very bulky battery for a reason, and my expierence with them is that they are useless unless you charge the battery within 12 hours before play. (even with the new 1000mAh batteries) To trip the sear on a automag takes quite a bit of force and travel and most mech solenoids are incapable of doing that on just a 9volt battery.

[roxcreek]

which is where your pneupack comes in handy.

between the RT valve and the x valve, they're pretty much the same thing, right?

[roxcreek]

I'm actually pretty curious about the questions I asked in post #25

[roxcreek]

bump