Cocker/Mag Hybrid

[cledford]

Originally posted by the electrician
actually cockers use 4-ways, and no I use an actual 3-way. a micro 3-way clippard part #SMAV-3.

E:

Is there any place cheaper then Clippard to purchase the 3 way? I was shocked by the fact that they charge a "handling fee" of more then the cost of the part it's self. Money's a little tight right now and the fee is obnoxious.

I see how you mounted it in the frame, but what did you do for linkage to the trigger? How about the ram you used?

Thanks,

-Calvin

[Timmee]

Here's a ram I was thinking of using for a project like this:

http://www.clippard.com/store/display_details.asp?sku=SM%2D6

Would it be acceptable for the purpose of tripping the sear? How would I go about actuating the sear with it? For those people that have already gotten this project to work, did you need to use a 90 degree bellcrank between the sear and the ram (that's how I was considering hooking it up)?

[the electrician]

you guys need to do some more home work to pick your parts.

how much max. force will that ram generate? how much do you need?

you need to either pull the front of the sear down, or better yet, push the sear in the same place the rod does. this way you don't have to actually connect it to the sear.

the trigger in a mag pushes on the trigger rod right? so I just put the SMAV-3 behind the trigger, a bit hight than where the rod used to hit the trigger. take the rod and clevis off of the sear.

this whole mod is dependant on access to a mill. and some of the cuts are a little tricky. you do have to take your time.

just make sure you plan out what you are going to do, before you start. do your homework.

[gunselman]

Linkage????

Okay guys i saw that Pnuema-sear mag on punishers a long time ago and thought that it sounded like a great i dea and i did some investigation and drew up some plans in AutoCad and have started some Rhino modeling. But i have been having a creative block when it comes to linking the Ram to the sear. If you guys can give me any help on this part that would be great.

[ZyperioN]

think emag....

[gunselman]

this may work??

Hey i was thinking of ways to connect the ram to the sear i was thinking that i am using a retro valve, and i was thinking that i could use the EMAG sear and connect the Ram to the the the plunger on the Emag sear. Hear is a really ****ty Pic of what i was thinking of doing, it shoudl work just ignore the Paint program i don't have photshop on this computer..


I think that it would work great because it is almost the exact same setup that there is in a Emag only they have an elctronic solenoid instead of a Ram.

Lets hear some feedback Guys!!!

[kapaintballman]

wat i was ganna do is jus cut off the little peice of metal that sticks down from the sear, and take off that trigger rod and watever the thing that that screws into off, and then drillin a hole in the back of the sear, and taking the trigger rod and that pivoting peice watever, and puttin that in the drilled hole, and hooking the the trigger rod 2 the ram (a lot like wat gunselmen said, except the sear wont have that extra peice of metal reaching down, and it will go right up 2 the sear) sry im like dislexic, i cant explain worth ****, but hopefully u can understand that

[ZyperioN]

Originally posted by ZyperioN
think emag....

Like i said......

[kapaintballman]

hey man, u gatta understand, im a bit slow, and most the time i look like this---->

[gunselman]

Hey, kapaintballman that s basically what i did only i used a Emag sear and just deleted the regular mechanical trigger rod off from it. Here is a pic of the regulare Retro Valve Sear and then the Emag SEar.


By the way Zyperion what do you mean "think emag"

[gunselman]

Emag Sear

They didn't both come up so here is the Emag sear, you can tell that it would work almost perfect for what we are talking about here and it isnt' that expenisve its only $55.00. And if it will work than that a cheap and creative way of doing it.


Or i guess you could jsut use the regular sear and shorten the rod, not to sure if the angle is going to work for what we are talking about here though?

Thoughts???????

[Punisher]

Hi guys,
Southbayjay told me there was a thread here about the PneuMag so I thought I'd pop in.

The one displayed in my gallery was built to the customer's specs: He wanted a slide trigger and front mounted pneumatics so that's what he got.
I built the ram to suit, it's got a grand total throw of 3/16" when running free. It runs at 45psi. I do wish I'd had an E-mag sear when I built it originally, t'would have made things easier.

I've since redesigned the conversion for a couple reasons. Directly linking to the sear is a pain in the butt and seems to cause some some wear and consistency issues. My new layout is pneumatic but has NO RAM. Wrap your brains around that.....hehehehehe.

Also, for you home builder types...a little hint that some may not want you to have. most every solenoid valve out there that's used in current paintball guns has a mechanical counterpart. Basically the same valve section but no electric coil. These puppies have ridiculously short throws and switch VERY quickly. A very good way to get that ultra short trigger pull. One should consider though that you need a certain amount of hysteresis or hold up for the close time. A trigger pull that's too short on a marker of this nature will make it tough to cycle smoothly.

So far the best over all results have been with one a couple setups.

1) Hinge frame (your choice) and Shockteck Bomb or similar 3-ring 4-way valve. With and Eclipse hinge and bomb I've tuned for a 2mm pull that allowed enough hold up to cycle smooth and consistent.

2) Mag spec Dye single trigger frame and mechanical version of the Humphrey's 401 valve. I had an adjustable linkage on this setup that allowed trigger throw from a baseline of 1.775mm down to a ridiculous .53mm!

I'll have to go back and read tis whole thread when I get a chance, looks like a good one!

[the electrician]

I took your advice a long while back and changed my old blue pneu-mag design to a horizontal valve actuator with a small piston in it which acts the ram. it has a 3/16" stroke. it is not actually conected to the sear, and has a spring return to help conserve air.

it worked well with an SMAV-3 valve behind the trigger, but it's even better with a morlock, 9v, and a MAC. it easily raps out 16 bps with a standard valve.

I'm now in the process of cramming a super small solenoid valve in the grip, mounted to the actuator with a homemade manifold.

so it will be a n e-mag of sorts, but no giant battery, and all in the grip but the palmer micro rock.

when I get it done I'll have to take some pics

[ZyperioN]

Originally posted by gunselman
By the way Zyperion what do you mean "think emag"

Obviously i mean think like an emag, the solenoid in an emag serves the same purpose as a ram in this project

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by Punisher
Hi guys,
Southbayjay told me there was a thread here about the PneuMag so I thought I'd pop in.

The one displayed in my gallery was built to the customer's specs: He wanted a slide trigger and front mounted pneumatics so that's what he got.
I built the ram to suit, it's got a grand total throw of 3/16" when running free. It runs at 45psi. I do wish I'd had an E-mag sear when I built it originally, t'would have made things easier.

I've since redesigned the conversion for a couple reasons. Directly linking to the sear is a pain in the butt and seems to cause some some wear and consistency issues. My new layout is pneumatic but has NO RAM. Wrap your brains around that.....hehehehehe.

Also, for you home builder types...a little hint that some may not want you to have. most every solenoid valve out there that's used in current paintball guns has a mechanical counterpart. Basically the same valve section but no electric coil. These puppies have ridiculously short throws and switch VERY quickly. A very good way to get that ultra short trigger pull. One should consider though that you need a certain amount of hysteresis or hold up for the close time. A trigger pull that's too short on a marker of this nature will make it tough to cycle smoothly.

So far the best over all results have been with one a couple setups.

1) Hinge frame (your choice) and Shockteck Bomb or similar 3-ring 4-way valve. With and Eclipse hinge and bomb I've tuned for a 2mm pull that allowed enough hold up to cycle smooth and consistent.

2) Mag spec Dye single trigger frame and mechanical version of the Humphrey's 401 valve. I had an adjustable linkage on this setup that allowed trigger throw from a baseline of 1.775mm down to a ridiculous .53mm!

I'll have to go back and read tis whole thread when I get a chance, looks like a good one!

Hello Punisher!

First... southbayjay = me!

Second, thank you for joining our party!!!

Thanks for dropping some knowledge... your experiences are much appreciated!

A few quick questions...

- Does this PneuMag mod shortstoke?
- Can you "walk the trigger" on this mod? (hinge trigger of course)
- Do you have any photos of your "new" redesigns? (options 1 and 2 as you stated)
- No ram???
- How much would these conversions cost? (ballpark?)

thanks!

Jack & Coke
(southbayjay)