A little gun idea

[SpedApple]

I had a pretty cool gun idea. It would be single tube and be closed bolt but i can make it open bolt to. Any how there would be a air valve, air chamber, ram, and bolt. Its pretty hard to explain with out seeing my sketches. So the valve sits in a closed position then when it moves back the AIR CHAMBER is sealed and the valve is opened. The air would flow into the air chamber which when the bolt moves back fowardwill breal the seal and the chamber will empty into the bolt which will have holes for the air to flow through. AN o-ring would seal the back of the bolt so no air shoots early. Thats the best i can explain it for now. Ill post sketches soon

[Rokudon]

ok so let me get this straight.


valve is closed when bolt is forward, and air chamber empty.
when firing, bolt moves back and seals air chamber
valve then opens and fills chamber
when done filling, valve closes and bolt moves forward
when all the way forward, air chamber dumps and ball is fired.


is that all correct? and where does the ram come into play? moves the bolt?
from what i can imagine of your design.. it would be quite interesting to fire. pull trigger, full actuation cycle THEN the ball would launch. to most people, there would be a problem here as there would be a lot of "precoil", causing inaccuracy.
also, i dont understand what you mean by the O-ring sealing the chamber before the bolt is fully extended to fire.


sorry about the criticism, but its usually in a person's nature to critique other peoples things above their own. (if u feel like it, u can criticize my design, its a couple of threads down, labeled "a pistol concept". ignore the first one, redundantly stupid idea that had too many moving parts and had no way to reset the bolt, criticise the second one )

[SpedApple]

Man i dont think thats criticism i think is right. Now what people say on PBN is criticism. Anyhow it'll just be open bolt. But still work pretty much the same.
Heres how:
1)Bolt is in back position. The Air Chamber is filling up with air. It is sealed off.
2)Bolt moves foward. The air chamber is unsealed and the Air valve gets sealed off.
3)Air rushes through the opening in the air chamber(now unsealed) and into the bolt.
4)Ball is propelled through the barrel.
5)These steps repeat as many times as it takes you to tag player x.

Any how the chamber will be unsealed when the bolt is just past the feedneck. A ram will power this whole thing. I just need to put my pics in like paint or somtin to show you a diagram of how it works.

[SlartyBartFast]

Sounds like a small variation on the various spool valve designs currently used.

[SpedApple]

that was my idea

that was what my idea was based on. Mine can be SFT if i have it made different. I tihnk i might use a old mini mag body to keep machining costs down. What is the inner bore of them?
Think i should do that? Pics comin soon

[SlartyBartFast]

[SpedApple]

SP= owned
lol nice yea im just saying it would be able to seal then shoot.
stupid patent freaks dont know whats good for the rest of us man their name makes me mad even. Ive gotta go punch a wall now.

[ScatterPlot]

Dude, that's exactly how mags work. They do the exact same thing but without a messy ram or anything, hence the bolt spring. Do a search for an animation, you'll see.

[Rokudon]

dont think so bert, he is proposing that the chamber is EMPTY until trigger is pulled, full cycle ends and begins at the pull of the trigger. mags work by releasing air when firing, and recharge when released. basically, pull fires, release resets system. his merges the 2 in one step: fill, fire, wait. repeat. ALMOST mag design, but not quite

[ScatterPlot]

Man i dont think thats criticism i think is right. Now what people say on PBN is criticism. Anyhow it'll just be open bolt. But still work pretty much the same.
Heres how:
1)Bolt is in back position. The Air Chamber is filling up with air. It is sealed off.
2)Bolt moves foward. The air chamber is unsealed and the Air valve gets sealed off.
3)Air rushes through the opening in the air chamber(now unsealed) and into the bolt.
4)Ball is propelled through the barrel.
5)These steps repeat as many times as it takes you to tag player x.

Any how the chamber will be unsealed when the bolt is just past the feedneck. A ram will power this whole thing. I just need to put my pics in like paint or somtin to show you a diagram of how it works.

I wasn't sure when in this process the trigger is being pulled, but I guess now that you mention it it would be at the start. In the Mag design it would be at about step 2 or right before. But I'm not sure how the Air chamber would be filling up then delay the release of the air.

[Rokudon]

my point exactly, there might be a "precoil" issue, otherwise the design looks pretty good

[ScatterPlot]

Do you mean precoil as in movement before the gun fired? Cause that's not what I'm talking about. In his design there is a delay between when the chamber starts filling and the valve opens it. This will cause very bad efficiency and poor consistency. If the chamber fills and the valve opens at the same time, it's like just letting air run free from the reg to the bolt. Plus there was no explanation of how to stop the air. It seems to me that with the trigger pulled down then air will be venting, no matter what. And if the chamber is filling without the external valve opening, then where will the delay come from?

[Rokudon]

wel, you say delay, i say precoil, NEARLY the same thing, but according to whatr I understand, when the trigger is pulled the chamber gets sealed by the bolt, then fills. later in the cycle, it stops filling then the bolt moves forward, firing the ball. its the entire mag firing cycle starting from an empty chamber. also, bolt actuation looks like a spool valve.

[ScatterPlot]

I think I am following you now, but when you say "later in the cycle", well, where does that delay come from? How would you add that in there?

[SlartyBartFast]

dont think so bert, he is proposing that the chamber is EMPTY until trigger is pulled, full cycle ends and begins at the pull of the trigger. mags work by releasing air when firing, and recharge when released. basically, pull fires, release resets system. his merges the 2 in one step: fill, fire, wait. repeat. ALMOST mag design, but not quite

Hey SpedApple,

Looks like we need a clarification. Rewrite the sequence to include when the trigger is pulled and what the trigger actuates.

Filling the chamber only when the trigger is pulled would be a VERY bad idea. Compare that a Mag currently fires of a ball in about 5 milliseconds after the trigger is pulled.

Your maximum BPS would be miniscule if the trigger was what iniciated charging. AND there would be a delay between trigger pull and ball firing for the charging to occur.