gun idea

[noahyay]

here it is

this is what i do in math and spanish

i think it would work and be relativly simple
its basically a mag but could be made with interchangeable valves

[Duzzy]

Sort of Lost...

Let me see if I understand this, the air goes from the tank to the regulator, there it gets regulated down to whatever pressure. Then it travels through a little passage into an air chamber. When someone pulls the trigger, it removes a plug to the air valve thus letting air flow out through the bolt.

If I understand this correctly I see a thing that might need to be worked on.

The plug to the air chamber would have to be either really big, which would make the trigger pull very long, or would have to operate at insanely high pressure to get enough air through the plug to propel the ball.

Did I get it right?

[Rokudon]

The plug to the air chamber would have to be either really big, which would make the trigger pull very long, or would have to operate at insanely high pressure to get enough air through the plug to propel the ball.

Did I get it right?

uhhhhhhh i got lost on which plug you're talking about... there's a big velocity plug, and there's the plug like thingy in the thing that looks like a 4way. if you're talking about the 4way one, i dont understand what you mean by having it enlarged to give enough flow. it looks sound, reminds me of what i thought about in my design... again scroll down the forum to see what i mean (the pistol one) a minor problem that might arise is the spring may interfere with flow (minutely, but eh...) and if you decide to use CO2, you could have potential problem with freezing. then of course you stated O2 in your pic so why in the world did i bring up CO2.... it looks good, but you forgot one thing: how does the bolt reset?

[personman]

I can't see that working.
You would not get enough flow, and the hoses will not run at the pressure needed to fire a paintball. Also, the trigger pull would be very heavy.

[Rokudon]

dont think the pull would be too heavy, considering that an autococker uses the trigger to actuate a 3way. if it were too heavy, then you might as well rule out any mech cocker and any palmer semiauto. plus i dont know what you mean by not enought flow rate still, considering that this one operates at a higher pressure than other 3 or 4ways, a smaller opening would be needed for higher pressure valve. unless it were running lp, you would need a larger opening. and if you made it LP, it might as well be a regular 3way from a cocker.

[personman]

dont think the pull would be too heavy, considering that an autococker uses the trigger to actuate a 3way. if it were too heavy, then you might as well rule out any mech cocker and any palmer semiauto. plus i dont know what you mean by not enought flow rate still, considering that this one operates at a higher pressure than other 3 or 4ways, a smaller opening would be needed for higher pressure valve. unless it were running lp, you would need a larger opening. and if you made it LP, it might as well be a regular 3way from a cocker.

No, an autococker three way is run at a low pressure. This would be run at enough pressure to fire a ball, therefore the wieght is increased substantially.
Assuming that he was going to build the gun just as pictured, and the blue lines are hoses, and its drawn to proportion, it wont have a very good flow. The air chamber needs to be next to the bolt. Those small lines would restrict the flow.
In all honesty, its a crappy drawing and he should try to make it more specific.. Is the bolt stationary?

[Duzzy]

uhhhhhhh i got lost on which plug you're talking about... ?

That big box behind the trigger that looks like it is used to seperate air lines and possibly keep air from continuously flowing. Since it looks like it was meant to stop air flow I called it a plug.

[ScatterPlot]

It looks to me like you just took all the parts of a mag and connected them with hoses. Aren't mag regs the fastest out there anyway...?

[mikeller1219]

lol bert, i agree with the trigger pull will be way to heavy you wont get enough flow, maybe if you made it electronic and acuate the valve with a solenoid but i dunno if that would even be able to move the valve, but it would have to be a longer solenoid to allow for greater air flow. and if you could follow all that congratulations

[Rokudon]

No, an autococker three way is run at a low pressure. This would be run at enough pressure to fire a ball, therefore the wieght is increased substantially.
Assuming that he was going to build the gun just as pictured, and the blue lines are hoses, and its drawn to proportion, it wont have a very good flow. The air chamber needs to be next to the bolt. Those small lines would restrict the flow.
In all honesty, its a crappy drawing and he should try to make it more specific.. Is the bolt stationary?

lol well, since it IS a bad drawing, i'd assume the final design would not have as many hoses. and the bolt part, bolts cant be stationary, their main purpose is to seperate shots and prevent gas venting into the feed tube, he just didnt get around to drawing in how its actuated.
HEY i just realised you did something wrong with the drawing. unless its a backbottle design, your 4way is backwards. and therefore, all your hoses and actuation... but only if its run in vertical air... anyway, getting back on track...
i dont think there would be that extreme of a pressure, considering that the pressure is equalized on both sides of the 4way, input from reg. and air chamber's fill. they would equalize and have no effect on the 4way. but then the venting might cause a large amount of pressure difference... wait no i dont think it would affect too much, because if you think about it, a regulator does ALMOST the same thing, and palmer's regs need virtually no maintainance. add a little oil and i think it would solve the pull weight issue

It looks to me like you just took all the parts of a mag and connected them with hoses. Aren't mag regs the fastest out there anyway...?

lol bert, defending the mags? again, different operation types, mags have a sear to hold onto the bolt and the other end is connected to the valve pin. this design cuts off gas to the bolt until it fires, but the refill is the same. release, "pin"(or 4way) moves out of the way and gas recharges. only half of it on this design. anyway, mags are very simple and effective by nature, why not take abit for design purposes? if they are going to be built, ask AGD for rights to use, and voila, a new gun system that isnt the same as anything else on the market. (except the mag... but think, what other gun follows the same design suit as the mag? freestyles are blow forward, but i dont think they operate like a mag)

[Rokudon]

lol bert, i agree with the trigger pull will be way to heavy you wont get enough flow, maybe if you made it electronic and acuate the valve with a solenoid but i dunno if that would even be able to move the valve, but it would have to be a longer solenoid to allow for greater air flow. and if you could follow all that congratulations

sorry for double posting but he posted before i could finish... i think you meant personman, and i'd still think the pull would be close to light, you just need some good orings in there and oil it every so often like a mag, it would probably solve stiffness issues

[ScatterPlot]

lol bert, defending the mags? again, different operation types, mags have a sear to hold onto the bolt and the other end is connected to the valve pin. this design cuts off gas to the bolt until it fires, but the refill is the same. release, "pin"(or 4way) moves out of the way and gas recharges. only half of it on this design. anyway, mags are very simple and effective by nature, why not take abit for design purposes? if they are going to be built, ask AGD for rights to use, and voila, a new gun system that isnt the same as anything else on the market. (except the mag... but think, what other gun follows the same design suit as the mag? freestyles are blow forward, but i dont think they operate like a mag)

In your design, what holds the bolt back? That's what the Mag's sear is for. Of course in your design you do eliminate the problem with the valve thingy there. But then again there goes that thing about the heavy pull.

The Mag is pretty much the most efficient way I can think of to connect all those individual components.

[Rokudon]

lol i agree, mag has the simplest design i've seen in a semi, but he's using a ram for bolt actuation (PS, not my design, mine's in another thread, and even so you need to scroll around for the changes i made to the design) and the issue about trigger pull, arent some HPA valves easy to open and close when fully pressurized? if they're so easy with 3000psi pushing against them and only letting 800psi out, i think thats a pretty good acomplishment, and considering this one will not reach anywhere near 3kpsi runing through its system, it could potentially be light with proper design

[ScatterPlot]

No that's a regulator, not a valve. There's a big difference. The valves on the HPA tanks are separate from the regs, there's no valve with one pressure on one side and another on the other side. And the valves, while light, are not near light enough for trigger pull weight.

[Rokudon]

still, considering that thry run at 3000psi compared to 100-900psi, those valves can get quite light (i think....)