How does Bob Long fit in the great conspiracy?

[Spider-TW]

There's lots of discussion about patents concerning electro markers and the damage they have or have not done to AGD, AKA, etc.

In all of this I have never seen any mention of Bob Long markers, particularly Intimidators, which seem to fit the description and design very well. The Intimidator shares many design features with the SP impulse and the Viking.

I can only figure three possibilities; 1) Bob Long has made a deal with or is paying royalties to SP. 2) He has managed to legally defend his designs as unique or pre-existing. 3) SP is not as vicious as they have been made out to be.

If someone could explain how the Intimidator does or does not fit in to that picture, it would help put a clearer perspective on the whole history. For that matter the Ego is similar too. How about Eclipse?

[warbeak2099]

Eclipse is a British company, SP has a U.S. patent.

I'm not sure about BLAST. When Bob was with NPS I just figured that SP wouldn't dare take on a larger, more wealthy company in court. But now that BLAST is a separate company, I'm not sure what is keeping SP at bay. It's not like Timmy's are the "in" gun anymore.

[Spider-TW]

Eclipse is a British company, SP has a U.S. patent.

A patent restricts the sale of the specified item (in the U.S.) doesn't it? Just because the Chinese make a bunch of knock-offs (beyond name brand stuff) in China does not allow them to legally sell them in the U.S..

Otherwise, we could talk to the Taurus factory and open AGD Brazil for stainless electro mags.

Sintered powder titanium frames...mmmmm.

[Jackel411]

Ive been told... weather or not this is true I have yet to figure out. That they are untouchable due to their guns (classic intimidators) being one of the first mass produced guns with electronic anti chop eyes....

Now SP can sue them for making electros, but they BLAST can counter sue for them using an anti chop eye system in there guns.

[Spider-TW]

Ah, the Mutually Assured Destruction theory applied to business. That would be interesting.

[y0da900]

They pay royalties. When they were with NPS, they were under protection from agreements that NPS had with SP. When they split, they had to reforge an agreement for themselves. Or so I've read several times.

Has nothing to do with eyes, the navy patented specifically breakbeam eyes in the 70's for pneumatic training guns, and Kurt (I think) was the first to put them in a modern paintball gun. They have no exclusivity to the design, just the first to mass market it from the factory.

[Spider-TW]

And the NPS agreement would also protect the invert mini?

I guess that agreement has become some valuable property for NPS. I always wondered why they kept going while most other 'suppliers' closed down or narrowed their market in the old days.

[warbeak2099]

A patent restricts the sale of the specified item (in the U.S.) doesn't it? Just because the Chinese make a bunch of knock-offs (beyond name brand stuff) in China does not allow them to legally sell them in the U.S..

Not quite. The patent restricts U.S. companies from manufacturing/building/making guns which fire using an electronic switch. PE is not a U.S. company nor is it making it's guns in the U.S. It would be super expensive, time consuming, and a waste for SP to sue PE. They tried it with WDP, another British company. Other factors caused them to lose the case, but they saw how expensive and foolish an international suit was.

[bryceeden]

yes, BLAST alreadt settled with SP. They're paying or have paid something.

[Spider-TW]

Not quite. The patent restricts U.S. companies from manufacturing/building/making guns which fire using an electronic switch. PE is not a U.S. company nor is it making it's guns in the U.S. It would be super expensive, time consuming, and a waste for SP to sue PE. They tried it with WDP, another British company. Other factors caused them to lose the case, but they saw how expensive and foolish an international suit was.

Yeah, the Chinese analogy is on too big of a scale to compare to markers.

Taurus does make a lot of copies...

[Lohman446]

Not quite. The patent restricts U.S. companies from manufacturing/building/making guns which fire using an electronic switch. PE is not a U.S. company nor is it making it's guns in the U.S. It would be super expensive, time consuming, and a waste for SP to sue PE. They tried it with WDP, another British company. Other factors caused them to lose the case, but they saw how expensive and foolish an international suit was.

What? They lost because WDP had a claim to the patent as equally valid as SPs, or so a court decided. It had NOTHING to do with WDP being based in Europe. A US patent offers protection theoretically world wide, and most definetly in the US. If nothing else SP could stop the import of PE markers. I bet, if one looks closely, they are going to find an agreement between SP and PE.

[KRAKMT]

Lohman is right. There are rules for registering patents in foreign coutries under a couple international agreements like the Burnes act- IIRC. Given that SP is controlled by patent agents I suspect the patent is not only as broad as possible but registered everywhere possible. The patent protects the market not where the item is produced. If I remember the Bob Long products were originally sold through national who said to SP get bent- If we have to pay royalty we won't sell your guns.

What? They lost because WDP had a claim to the patent as equally valid as SPs, or so a court decided. It had NOTHING to do with WDP being based in Europe. A US patent offers protection theoretically world wide, and most definetly in the US. If nothing else SP could stop the import of PE markers. I bet, if one looks closely, they are going to find an agreement between SP and PE.

[Spider-TW]

What? They lost because WDP had a claim to the patent as equally valid as SPs, or so a court decided. It had NOTHING to do with WDP being based in Europe. A US patent offers protection theoretically world wide, and most definetly in the US. If nothing else SP could stop the import of PE markers. I bet, if one looks closely, they are going to find an agreement between SP and PE.

If WDP was successful in their defense, would it be possible to arrange an agreement with them for an electro over SP? Or is that where the X-mag came in?

[robertsr1811]

Taurus does make a lot of copies...

That's not really the same thing. Tarus licenses the designs and in some cases purchases the tooling from the parent company.

[Bartman]

Its not only SP, WDP, and Dye all have something on each other, so really for SP to go after some one now they better make sure that one of the other big 3 arn't already protecting these smaller companies.

My 2 cents

Bartman