automag rt

[hillg]

if I get a new rail and the ule will the rt valve still fit?

[211]

The main differnece in the classic RT and all the other AGD setups is that the classic RT has an air through rail (thats why that piece of hardline goes into yuor rail and not the valve)
because the air enters the valve from the bottom, not the side, you cant readily switch out the older RT for any other valve without getting a differnt rail
The RT calssic uses the same Z lock that all the valves do, but the track for the pin on the RT is cut into the bottom of the body, so if you cut your mainbody back and tried to use a RTPro valve the Zlock pin woulkdnt have a channel to secure into on the RT airthrough rail

Your best bet is to get rid of the macro line, go to stainless its rated to a higher PSI, get an adjustable tank set the output to around 1100 psi and go outshoot the guys with their ramping electros

[p8ntbal4me]

go to stainless its rated to a higher PSI,

SS hose is Macro Line wrapped as you see it.

Correct me if Im wrong, but the the SS hose was intended for the EXTERNAL abuse factor and not to reach a higher internal PSI. Kinda like a marketing factor.

And when I say that, I mean specifically the SS hose we use, not the ones for other applications.

Again,.. I could be wrong. But as for the internal component of the SS hose Im certain.

I have one R/T input running 1000-1100psi (for testing). Have not had any issues yet.

Comments/Corrections Welcome!

~ P8nt

[p8ntbal4me]

here is my gun btw
now how can you tell the dif with an rt and a pro?

Looking at this picture:

A: As mentioned before, the grip itself is the older style (and the better one IMHO)

B: The front foregrip and ASA mount is a bit wider and looks different in that the "gills" are milled and not "cut".

C: The rail itself has the ability to take gas through the back portion to deliver gas to the Banjo Bolt and up into the valve. You can use classic R/T rails on other mag bodies and valves if you have the bushings to "shim" up the gap found due to the Banjo Bolt.
The bushings are brass, look like Level 10 carriers, and just make the hole small enough to take a standard FS screw and eleminate the play. Buy em from AGD for 3.00 a piece.
Also the "high line" was unique to the classic R/T. Best of my knowledge, Venom Toxic Toyz was the only company to make an aftermarket replacement that came in 2 types. One was as you see it here in the picture, the other had an inline check valve with on/off bleed. I had one on my first Micro Mag. This line could go to the R/T rail or to the valve itself if not used on an R/T. It was a really neat line!

D: The sight rail. Wider, classic look to it. I really think the body and the sight rail make an R/T stand out.

E: The valve is thinner and only fits on a classic R/T rail or one that has been modified to take a Banjo Bolt.

F: The Banjo Bolt. Gas thru delivery to the valve via the rail input holes.

Hope that helps,... Im a graphical guy,.. I need to see things to understand them.

~ P8nt

[p8ntbal4me]

:
He can't put a ULT in that valve.

Correct.

Solution = I had one of my E-Mag valves I bought on eBay drilled out by a guy in TX for $15 bucks to take a ULT.

Call AGD and they will give you the names of 2 people they trust to do the work.

I was told by them that they can drill out a classic R/T valve to take the ULT.

I have not tried nor seen someone do this.

~ P8nt

[hillg]

so I need to get a new valve. great info but that's to technical for

[p8ntbal4me]

so I need to get a new valve. great info but that's to technical for

Nah.
If you like your gun but you want a ULT to make the trigger pull lighter,.. give AGD a call on Monday and ask them for the names of people who will drill out your valve.

Its simple, and takes about a week.

That means the only thing you have to do to this gun is pay for the drilling,.. nothing else.

If you went with the ULE body already then a new valve might be better.

That all depends on your likes and dislikes of your R/T.

It really is a nice looking gun! You want to sell that older body let me know.

~ P8nt

[hillg]

what is it worth to you

Nah.
If you like your gun but you want a ULT to make the trigger pull lighter,.. give AGD a call on Monday and ask them for the names of people who will drill out your valve.

Its simple, and takes about a week.

That means the only thing you have to do to this gun is pay for the drilling,.. nothing else.

If you went with the ULE body already then a new valve might be better.

That all depends on your likes and dislikes of your R/T.

It really is a nice looking gun! You want to sell that older body let me know.

~ P8nt

[snoopay700]

If you haven't bought a ULE mainbody already, don't do it, in that case you're better off going with the upgrade, it's a much better deal. If you did buy one, then you can get a piece of tubing that is the same diameter of the mainbody and cut the holes and parts out needed so your rt valve will fit. It'll look a little ghetto rigged, but it'll be lighter and will work. Mainly i would keep the body you have, it'll be easier, otherwise you'll basically have to buy a whole new gun if you want a new valve, as you'll also need a new rail, and that's when the upgrade is the better option.

Now then, the ULT, if you haven't fired your RT yet, i would recommend you do that before taking the risk of milling out your valve to accept this. I personally think that the RT's stock trigger pull with an intelliframe is light enough, as i can walk it and it's faster than just straight pulling it, but it's not quite as fast as an electric, but then again, i've never needed to shoot that fast, even when i charge people with electros and such or i'm going for the flag.

A much less risky alternative to the ULT is to get a BKO trigger frame (can be found on here for around 10 bucks, i was looking at one from craltal, don't know if he is still selling it) and then making a pnuematic trigger frame, as this will be just like the electrics but will have no batteries, but this is a project and i don't know if you have the tools to do it.

P8ntbal was right, the difference is if you look at where your hard airline is going, it is going into your rail, not your actual valve. The X-valve's input can be on the left or right (as you can switch yours too, but most people keep it stock like yours, like me, though mine came without the sight rail, but i don't mind) but it goes directly into the valve. I will find pictures to help you understand:

If you look closely you can see on the bottom of the RT valve that there is a gold piece and a little in back of that is a hole, it's not that visible, but it's there. That is the spot that the banjo bolt, the back screw on your trigger frame, screws into, and that is also the air source for the valve. Now, onto the X-Valve/emag/etc. valve:


As you can see, there is a hole in the top (the valve is upside down) and above it it shows that a gold piece is supposed to go into it (numbers 17-23), the on/off assembly, and this is that little gold spot that we saw on the bottom of the RT valve, and that smaller hole in back of it is for the field strip screw, and that's where the banjo bolt would go if this were an RT valve and so that means that that's where the air source goes for the RT valve, but as you can see on the X-valve is is clearly on the right side of the valve (remember the valve is upside down). You can also see that the back half of the X-valve is a good deal bigger than that of the RT valve, this is the other outside difference, yet internally they are the same.

That is, except for one thing, if you look back at the on/off assembly at the bottom, right above the valve (number 23) there is an o-ring, and the RT is lacking that o-ring and instead of fitting into number 23, the smaller o-ring #22 fits into a piece of metal inside the valve, and it is this piece of metal, even though it's not thick, that is keeping you from using the ULT, so you just have to get someone to drill this out, but you need to find someone who can do it right, so like others said, contact AGD for people who can do it.

If you need me to clear anything up, just let me know.

EDIT: Ah geez, i almost forgot, the other difference between the X-valve and the RT valve is the RT comes stock with a level 7 bolt, the X-valve comes stock with a level 10, so if you are going for the trade in (which i wouldn't, i would keep your body, valve, and everything else, just replace the bolt, and get a ULT if you want to take the risk and tap out your valve) then i wouldn't get a level 10 as the upgrade will include one.

[hillg]

i have right now a ult and new rail. not really wanting the ult cuz of the intellliframe. i read everthing you wrote and i was still scratching my head I was going to add the lvl 10 to the rt valve but like i said i was confused with what u said. i dont want to spend the money on the xvalve if i dont need to and keep the rt valve. let me know if i can or if i {screwd} my self going the way i am.

YOU GUYS ARE GREAT KEEP ALL THE INFO AND HELP COMING


Edit....Please dont swear here. Thank you. I fixed it THIS time.

[hillg]

as things come to gether i will post pics and details of whats goin on. i hope it looks and works as good as i dream

[mr doo doo]

what i... *ahem* maybe a level 10, a benchmark or intelliframe, and probably a barrel would do you just good in terms of upgrades

[snoopay700]

as things come to gether i will post pics and details of whats goin on. i hope it looks and works as good as i dream

You don't need the ULT in my opinion, but you can get it tapped to accept one if you want, contact AGD for people who can do this.

You don't need an X-Valve, it's teh same valve that you have for a DIFFERENT gun.

Get a level ten if you intend to keep the gun how it is rather than doing the $300 trade in.

[p8ntbal4me]

i have right now a ult and new rail. not really wanting the ult cuz of the intellliframe. i read everthing you wrote and i was still scratching my head I was going to add the lvl 10 to the rt valve but like i said i was confused with what u said. i dont want to spend the money on the xvalve if i dont need to and keep the rt valve. let me know if i can or if i {screwd} my self going the way i am.

YOU GUYS ARE GREAT KEEP ALL THE INFO AND HELP COMING


Edit....Please dont swear here. Thank you. I fixed it THIS time.

Okay well let us help you a bit more then.

The parts your talking about I think your confused on what you can and can not mix.

So,... for your R/T WITH the older valve here are your options:

Rail: the one you have or the R/T Pro (and the like) as long as you use the correct sear for that rail you choose

Body: have to use classic bodies for the most part. You could get away with another one but you wont like the way it will look (the valve and body lines dont line up)

Bolts: you can use the standard Level 7 you have with your valve or you can get a level 10 and use that. The level 10 is an anti-chop (which does work when properly tuned)

And for your R/T with the ULE body:

Rail: have to use the R/T Pro or E-Mag spec rails. Exception to this is to dremel or mill the round body mount hole to an eliptical shape that the ULE will take (10 minute job)

Body: depends on the rail you use.

Bolts: you can use the standard Level 7 you have with your valve or you can get a level 10 and use that. The level 10 is an anti-chop (which does work when properly tuned)

For both of these routes you can use a ULT as long as you have the older valve drilled out.

For the newer X-Valve it should fit as is for a ULT. Walking the trigger is easier with the ULT.

So ask yourself,... do I want an X-Valve?

If you do you have 2 options: Cut the older body or get a ULE body

If you get the ULE body, now you need a rail that fits it.

The ULE/Rail/X-Valve route is mor expensive from where you stand unless you do some work to the rail yourself.

Cheapest route is to send the valve out to get drilled for the ULT, slap the Intelli frame on the gun, maybe get the level 10 with an X-Valve when your ready. You dont need the bolt yet,.. but its nice to have. Id think you would be happy right away with the ULT in your older valve and that Intelli-frame. Right there you will notice a difference in the rate of fire.

~ P8nt

[snoopay700]

Okay well let us help you a bit more then.

The parts your talking about I think your confused on what you can and can not mix.

So,... for your R/T WITH the older valve here are your options:

Rail: the one you have or the R/T Pro (and the like) as long as you use the correct sear for that rail you choose

Body: have to use classic bodies for the most part. You could get away with another one but you wont like the way it will look (the valve and body lines dont line up)

Bolts: you can use the standard Level 7 you have with your valve or you can get a level 10 and use that. The level 10 is an anti-chop (which does work when properly tuned)

And for your R/T with the ULE body:

Rail: have to use the R/T Pro or E-Mag spec rails. Exception to this is to dremel or mill the round body mount hole to an eliptical shape that the ULE will take (10 minute job)

Body: depends on the rail you use.

Bolts: you can use the standard Level 7 you have with your valve or you can get a level 10 and use that. The level 10 is an anti-chop (which does work when properly tuned)

For both of these routes you can use a ULT as long as you have the older valve drilled out.

For the newer X-Valve it should fit as is for a ULT. Walking the trigger is easier with the ULT.

So ask yourself,... do I want an X-Valve?

If you do you have 2 options: Cut the older body or get a ULE body

If you get the ULE body, now you need a rail that fits it.

The ULE/Rail/X-Valve route is mor expensive from where you stand unless you do some work to the rail yourself.

Cheapest route is to send the valve out to get drilled for the ULT, slap the Intelli frame on the gun, maybe get the level 10 with an X-Valve when your ready. You dont need the bolt yet,.. but its nice to have. Id think you would be happy right away with the ULT in your older valve and that Intelli-frame. Right there you will notice a difference in the rate of fire.

~ P8nt

NONONONONONONONONONO

He can't use an RTPro rail with his valve. He can't get the ULE body, even if he gets a new rail. He can't use an older body (or any other body) as the valve wont' lock and just won't be in the right position. Classic rails won't fit because of the different front screw mount. Your whole second half of your post doesn't seem to know what it's talking about, nor the first half, outside of the bolts and that you would need a new rail and body for an x-valve.

EDIT: No offense, but it seems like you've never dealt with an old RT before, and the front mount is the same shape a a ULE body, but it still won't work with a ULE body or a classic body unless he mills his rail (for the classic body) and makes a special sleeve.