automag rt

[p8ntbal4me]

Errr,... wtf?

I need to stop posting when studying for finals

Just ignore that first post,... Im editing the thing right now!

Nice grab Snoop.

~ P8nt

NONONONONONONONONONO

He can't use an RTPro rail with his valve. He can't get the ULE body, even if he gets a new rail. He can't use an older body (or any other body) as the valve wont' lock and just won't be in the right position. Classic rails won't fit because of the different front screw mount. Your whole second half of your post doesn't seem to know what it's talking about, nor the first half, outside of the bolts and that you would need a new rail and body for an x-valve.

EDIT: No offense, but it seems like you've never dealt with an old RT before, and the front mount is the same shape a a ULE body, but it still won't work with a ULE body or a classic body unless he mills his rail (for the classic body) and makes a special sleeve.

[snoopay700]

Errr,... wtf?

I need to stop posting when studying for finals

Just ignore that first post,... Im editing the thing right now!

Nice grab Snoop.

~ P8nt

I was about to say, what the heck are you talking about haha. Anwyay, in short hillg, just keep what you have, put on a level 10, and if you really want the ULT call AGD and ask who you can get to drill the valve out to accept the ULT.

[hillg]

this is what i have right now so u can see what im working with. Hope this helps us all.

[IMG][/IMG]
comes with Rail, sear and sear pin, snatch grip, foregrip

[IMG][/IMG]
my ule body

[IMG][/IMG]
the frame on the left is mine.

this is the stuff i will add, and i need to get a new valve let me know. hope i dont thats the reason im using the rt but if i do then it is what it is. When all said and done this will be one sick looking and shooting gun!

[snoopay700]

This is a very important question, did you buy ANY of that stuff yet? if not, DON'T. If you have, all i can say is try to sell it or save it until you get your 2nd mag (they all eventually do for the most part). The only thing i would recommend for you to add is the intelliframe, but ONLY if it is for teh original RT, which is what you have. It that's not what it is for, it won't work, i will try to get a picture comparing my mags and their grip frames to show you why this is important, i'll be back with the pictures in about 10 minutes.

[hillg]

i have the stuff already. why wont it work? should i get rid of this rt and get a classic 68?

[snoopay700]

i have the stuff already. why wont it work? should i get rid of this rt and get a classic 68?

Well you can't use it with the classic RT and i will show you why, i have to upload the photos and then i will show you the differences, so hang tight for another 10 minutes or so, maybe a little longer.

[hillg]

another thing i was thinking is dont i have pretty much everything to build a mag? other then a bolt and a trigger pin?

[snoopay700]

No you do not, and let us embark on my explanation of the differences between the the Automag RT and all other mags, and that is mainly the valve. First there was the Classic Valve, which once again, we all know and love. Then came the RT valve which was shaped differently on the outside, which people didn't like, so they based the new RT valve (ReTro and emag and X-Valves) off of the Classic Valve's exterior while internally it was the same as the RT valve. This should be an easy thing to understand unless i worded it wrong, but basically the X-valve has the same dimensions as the Classic valve, though it works just like an RT valve.

That said, here we go:



Now then the classic valved mag on top has a much smaller hole in the rear of the trigger frame as you can see, and this is because the RT has a different field strip screw than all over mags.



Here we can see the culprit, on the right is the RT field strip pin. If you look closely through the blurriness, you might be able to see the hole between the bottom two o-rings, and this is were the air enters the screw from the rail, and then it goes into your gun, so the RT's air input is in the bottom, courtesy of this screw.

On the right is the screw that the Classic mag and the RT Pro and all other mags and valves use, and it is much thinner as you can see, which makes it so that you need a trigger from with a larger hole to allow for the RT's larger field strip screw, so i hope that that is what you have, although if you have a substantial clamp and drill press, you may be able to remedy that, we can get into that later, i find buying an RT intelliframe to be easier.




This might take a trained eye to see, but you can clearly see that looking at it from the back the guide pin for the classic/X-valve would be on the left side, where as the RT's is on the right, and it's not milled into the rail like that for the classic/X-valve, it is cut into the mainbody. This is the reason why you cannot use a ULE body without making a custom part, that and you need another hole in the custom part for the Banjo Bolt (RT's field strip screw).



Here we can see the differences on the valves (the X-valve looks like the Classic valve only instead of the circle on/off it's got the gold one like the RT). The guide pin is on opposite sides, as looking at it from this angle, the RT's pin is on the right side and the Classic/X-valve's is on the left (if you can't make it out, the RT's guide pin is the spec of white on the black on the left side, the classic's is on the left between the two upper holes, i forgot to circle these). We also see that the RT has a much bigger hole that is circled, and this is because this is where that bigger screw goes, and it's also where the RT gets its air from, where as the Classic/X-valve gets it from an external source as you can see from the 90* fitting.

Here are some more for comparison:



I hope that helps to clear up the differences and why you can't use those things. I would keep the gun, and then if the intelliframe won't fit the field strip screw then sell it and the other parts (or keep them for if you get an x-valve or classic valve, as that is all you will need to make another gun with everything you have there if the intelliframe won't fit on your RT). If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask, i'll do my best to try to answer them.


EDIT: If you wanted to, you could buy an X-valve or a Classic valve or a ReTro Valve or an Emag Valve and a field strip screw (one on the left in my picture) and drop it into what you have right now (i think, i'm not sure if that intelli is for a normal mag or RT, but i'm fearing it's for a normal mag) and you would have two mags right there, so in short, i envy you. For a mere 100-300 (depending on if you get a ReTro or emag valve used or a new X-valve) you would have another high performing gun, and if you got an emag valve or an X-valve (only one that COMES with a level 10) then you could just drop a ULT right in. If you're satisfied with the RT you have though, sell the other stuff and buy an intelliframe from AGD for the RT.

[trevorjk]

ok i will make this SUPER SUPER EASY for you.

the older RT. leave it as is

with all the parts you have coming in. (ule body, rail with sear pin and sear, snatch grip, forgrip, intelliframe) all you need is an RT PRO style valve (RT PRO and E-MAG are stainless steel and E-max, X, X-valve are alluminum) AND a field strip screw. then if you want to, get a ULT trigger kit, and a Level 10(if the valve did not come with either the ULT or LX)

this way you have 2 complete mags for when the GF/wifey wants to play

also if you go this route you could then sell one or the other. the old RT looks to be in AMAZING condition and should probably get around 250ish. if you complete the new mag with all the new parts you got you could probably fetch 450ish. both are estimates from lack of knowing current prices but that should be fairly close to the ball park

[snoopay700]

ok i will make this SUPER SUPER EASY for you.

the older RT. leave it as is

with all the parts you have coming in. (ule body, rail with sear pin and sear, snatch grip, forgrip, intelliframe) all you need is an RT PRO style valve (RT PRO and E-MAG are stainless steel and E-max, X, X-valve are alluminum) AND a field strip screw. then if you want to, get a ULT trigger kit, and a Level 10(if the valve did not come with either the ULT or LX)

this way you have 2 complete mags for when the GF/wifey wants to play

also if you go this route you could then sell one or the other. the old RT looks to be in AMAZING condition and should probably get around 250ish. if you complete the new mag with all the new parts you got you could probably fetch 450ish. both are estimates from lack of knowing current prices but that should be fairly close to the ball park

I said that same exact thing in the last paragraph of my post, the other part of my post was to show him the difference between the guns to show him WHY that stuff wouldn't work with his gun, rather than leaving him clueless and wondering why he can't use all this automag stuff he bought on his classic RT.

EDIT: I forgot about zak for a while, go here: http://www.zakvetter.com/pages/paint...gd_valves.html

That says the difference between the valves and the note in bold at the bottom explains everything i've been saying in an easy way.

[trevorjk]

I said that same exact thing in the last paragraph of my post, the other part of my post was to show him the difference between the guns to show him WHY that stuff wouldn't work with his gun, rather than leaving him clueless and wondering why he can't use all this automag stuff he bought on his classic RT.

EDIT: I forgot about zak for a while, go here: http://www.zakvetter.com/pages/paint...gd_valves.html

That says the difference between the valves and the note in bold at the bottom explains everything i've been saying in an easy way.

oh i know, but Hillg wanted laymans terms. so i put it down super easy for him. i know you did as well, but i took out all the clarification

[snoopay700]

oh i know, but Hillg wanted laymans terms. so i put it down super easy for him. i know you did as well, but i took out all the clarification

Well i do tend to over complicate things when i explain them, as you can see from nearly every post of mine in this thread being about a book long, mainly because that's how i can understand it, so i suppose i can forgive you for that, however that whole sticking your tongue out at me, you'll have to send me an x-valved mag or an xmag for me to be able to forgive you, i'm sorry, there's just no way around it
EDIT: i just realized p8nt's post still has some errors, unless i'm not following what he means, i'll wait until someone else posts so i don't double post or take this one off topic and make it really long.

[trevorjk]

Well i do tend to over complicate things when i explain them, as you can see from nearly every post of mine in this thread being about a book long, mainly because that's how i can understand it, so i suppose i can forgive you for that, however that whole sticking your tongue out at me, you'll have to send me an x-valved mag or an xmag for me to be able to forgive you, i'm sorry, there's just no way around it
EDIT: i just realized p8nt's post still has some errors, unless i'm not following what he means, i'll wait until someone else posts so i don't double post or take this one off topic and make it really long.

actually if you have a pretty penny i know where 2 CAN be bought gloss purple with matching warp breech and a black to pewter to silver fade which was a factory bad anno (but still looks fine)

[snoopay700]

actually if you have a pretty penny i know where 2 CAN be bought gloss purple with matching warp breech and a black to pewter to silver fade which was a factory bad anno (but still looks fine)

Heh, yeah, not gonna work, stuff happened and now i'm in debt, so probably for a few months after i finally get a job i can't buy anything, and then a car will be my main priority probably.

Now for p8nt's post, my responses are in bold:

Okay well let us help you a bit more then.

The parts your talking about I think your confused on what you can and can not mix.

So,... for your R/T WITH the older valve here are your options:

Rail: the one you have or the R/T Pro (and the like) as long as you use the correct sear for that rail you choose
This is completely wrong, with the classic RT valve, you can only use the rail that you have, because it's the only rail that will allow you to put air into your valve because it's the only one with a gas through rail

Body: have to use classic bodies for the most part. You could get away with another one but you wont like the way it will look (the valve and body lines dont line up)
This is also wrong, you can theoretically use classic bodies, but only if you mill out your rail to accept the rectangular front, as the RT has a circle front mount. A ULE body will fit right onto your gun, however like i said in my post with pictures, you need a custom back made so you have the part that locks your valve with the guide pin, so basically you're pretty much stuck with what you have.

Bolts: you can use the standard Level 7 you have with your valve or you can get a level 10 and use that. The level 10 is an anti-chop (which does work when properly tuned)
This is completely true, you can use this bolt with your valve, you can use them with all AGD valves.

And for your R/T with the ULE body:

Rail: have to use the R/T Pro or E-Mag spec rails. Exception to this is to dremel or mill the round body mount hole to an eliptical shape that the ULE will take (10 minute job)
Like i said, this is false, you can put teh ULE body right on, but you won't have the back half covering your valve and you won't have basically what you need, you would need to make a custom part for this to work, or to get another valve such as an X-valve, or even a classic valve, if you get either of these you can put them on teh ULE body you have and the trigger frame and rail that i told you you can't use on your RT, then you'll have two guns

Body: depends on the rail you use.
This is true, what body you can use depends on the rail you have, the rail you have will only accept the body you have, any others will require tedious modification

Bolts: you can use the standard Level 7 you have with your valve or you can get a level 10 and use that. The level 10 is an anti-chop (which does work when properly tuned)
See above

For both of these routes you can use a ULT as long as you have the older valve drilled out.
Again, this is true, contact AGD to see who you can trust to do it

For the newer X-Valve it should fit as is for a ULT. Walking the trigger is easier with the ULT.
Also true, you can get an x-valve, put it on the new parts you bought, drop a ULT in it and it'll rip faster than your RT that you bought, so you can use that one as a loaner. The bad thing is this will cost around 300 dollars or so

So ask yourself,... do I want an X-Valve?

If you do you have 2 options: Cut the older body or get a ULE body
This won't work, the rail you have won't really allow it because it's lacking the locking groove for the guide pin of the x-valve, but you can use it in that nice new rail you bought

If you get the ULE body, now you need a rail that fits it.
This is true, but you already have one, and any rail can fit this body, it's just the classic RT won't work with it

The ULE/Rail/X-Valve route is mor expensive from where you stand unless you do some work to the rail yourself.
This is irrelevant because you have a rail, although he's pretty much right on this if i'm understanding it

Cheapest route is to send the valve out to get drilled for the ULT, slap the Intelli frame on the gun, maybe get the level 10 with an X-Valve when your ready. You dont need the bolt yet,.. but its nice to have. Id think you would be happy right away with the ULT in your older valve and that Intelli-frame. Right there you will notice a difference in the rate of fire.
This is a bad idea, if you get the valve drilled out to accept the ULT just get a level 10, as you can't use the x-valve on your classic RT but you can use it to make a whole new gun with that rail, ULE body, and intelliframe that you ordered, let us know if you take that route and post pictures

~ P8nt

I'm not doing this to badmouth p8nt, or make him look bad, i just want to make sure that you (hillg) get the right information so you don't do something that you'll regret. I blame his mistakes on his brain being fried from studying for finals, we've all been there for the most part.

EDIT: Sorry about the low quality of the pictures, my camera tends to do that unless you set the flash a certain way or something, that camera makes me mad, and that button for the flash is broken or something. Hooray for quality products.

[hillg]

i have always gone with the xvalve on my mags but just wanted to know what the difference is with the emag valve?