G-Force/PTP patent issue?

[muzungu_mbaya]

patent specs

If the other patents specify the automag by name (somewhat unlikely since most patents are written to be as broad as possible), then there may be a case for infringement. But if their technology is generally considered to be uncontestable, and all they did was adapt it for the mag without changing any aspect of its operation, then I think they are reasonably well protected. However, the real proof is in the language of the claims. The rest of the patent can say anything it wants, but the claims are the only part that really matters.

However, once you get to court, the only thing that matters is who has the better lawyer.

[Papa_Smurf]

I'll help fund anyone who actually makes me a product to buy!

Good job GForce

[punkncat]

well thus far garf has been irritated at any claims his patent/s may be invalid

infact hes seemed to brush them aside and say "we have a us patent" and "i am well aware of the legal issues" when he first joined the forums.

so he has alot of faith in his patent and doesnt seem worried about it.

Well, this may be a fact. If so, it would seem that he could be a bit nicer and tell us by way of a small amount of explaination. Telling me to "go away" and giving a short answer goes no further than to raise suspicion in my mind.
If I am wrong in thinking this then, just like I said in the other (deleted portion of) thread I apologize.
Is it too much to ask for a bit of info?

[anomoly40]

At this point I am almost fed up with great products being choked to death by companies that hold a patent and are not making a product containing the patented componet or idea. I say we revise the patent laws to give 6 months to 1 year from the time it's patented to have a product on the market. After that it's free or slightly limited reign. Now this will not change the SP situation but it will help the small niche companies such as G-force.

[Smoothice]

Well, this may be a fact. If so, it would seem that he could be a bit nicer and tell us by way of a small amount of explaination. Telling me to "go away" and giving a short answer goes no further than to raise suspicion in my mind.
If I am wrong in thinking this then, just like I said in the other (deleted portion of) thread I apologize.
Is it too much to ask for a bit of info?

What kind of explanation are you looking for?

He has already stated in that thread that he has a patent.

Is there some kind of special handshake he needs to perform in order to make you happy?

What I find the most entertaining of all is that you take your "Sources" information as if it was gospel and dismiss what GForce has to say as if he was lying to you. Has GForce done something before that has caused you not to trust them?

Last I checked people were innocent until proven guilty.

[TnDeathInc]

Well, this may be a fact. If so, it would seem that he could be a bit nicer and tell us by way of a small amount of explaination. Telling me to "go away" and giving a short answer goes no further than to raise suspicion in my mind.
If I am wrong in thinking this then, just like I said in the other (deleted portion of) thread I apologize.
Is it too much to ask for a bit of info?

if you bought a frame, no, if you didn't, yes, and in that case tex the sun is that way ride towards it. I know its tough but try finding another home based option to trolling forums stirring up stuff.

[ThePixelGuru]

How is it that Garf claims he has a US patent on a product that it would seem apparent that PTP controls?

I know that there was some other company that wanted to bring this product to market, was stopped by PTP and was unable to negotiate the details.

It has come out on another forum that there was the possiblity of some letter sent to G-Force by PTP concering this issue.
When I posed the question I was told to "go bug someone else" by Garf and the contents of that question were quickly deleted from the (frame) thread. (explained below and edited)

This is a real issue. If these guys are illegally taking this frame into production then what happens with PTP's vested intrest?
How is it that two different companies have a patent on a seemingly similar product?

I don't think this is a invalid question. I feel it needs to be truthfully answered, without being told to "go away". This "head in the sand" approach is less than ethical.

Just because people are anxious to get a product doesn't make it right to avoid the possible implications or responsibilites.

There's more than one way to make a pneumatic trigger, and as such there can be more than one patent for a pneumatic trigger. G-Force isn't illegally taking this frame to market, and there's no way that can possibly be true unless and until it's challenged. If there's no challenge, it's legal. That's just how it works. Garf's telling you to get lost because G-Force has a patent and has no need to respond to the challenges of a third party with no involvement. Sure, you're curious, but he doesn't need to satisfy your curiosity, and doing so could put him in a weaker legal position. He's not a lawyer or a patent attorney, so it would be pretty dumb for him to elaborate and possibly talk himself into a corner.

As for PTP sending a letter to G-Force, I'm gonna have to call shenanigans on that. I've only ever heard that statement from you, and it's never been accompanied by any information about what kind of letter it was, when it was sent, what it concerns, or where information about it was posted. Where did you hear that, anyway?

[Thotograph]

At this point I am almost fed up with great products being choked to death by companies that hold a patent and are not making a product containing the patented componet or idea. I say we revise the patent laws to give 6 months to 1 year from the time it's patented to have a product on the market. After that it's free or slightly limited reign. Now this will not change the SP situation but it will help the small niche companies such as G-force.

Couldn't that also hurt small companies? I mean is it better to have to rush a product to market just to make a deadline, or have the product take a while to get to market and be refined and ready to be sold to consumers? I don't think your idea is a bad one (I agree that holding a patent and not using it is a waste in the eyes of the consumers), but patents are given to small companies as well as big ones to protect their designs and "intellectual property." So if a small co. couldn't get the product to market within said amount of time for whatever reason and lost their exclusive rights to a patent... wouldn't that be like throwing them to the wolves?

Intelectual property is such a grey area with pb patents now a days... I wish patents were given for actual designs instead of vague descriptions (cough sp cough). I hope that GForce gets their frame to market... I think that if PTP does anything to contest GForce they should do so by making their own pneuframe. Then let us, the players, decide which is better.

There's still too many lawsuits (and ever impending threats of lawsuits) that stiffle competition and growth in our sport. Which leaves us with less products to enjoy and purchase. I figure most AOers are above all the lawsuit garbage, so it's my hope that the companies around us are above the fog of legal warfare as well. Only time will tell.

[punkncat]

if you bought a frame, no, if you didn't, yes, and in that case tex the sun is that way ride towards it. I know its tough but try finding another home based option to trolling forums stirring up stuff.

Lol, I find this reply funny. Is it that you (all) care so much that I am "stirring things up" as you put it, or the fact that you fear that you might be getting a product that came to market through less than honorable avenues?
Could it be that your desire to get the product at any cost or means distorts your judgement?

I am not making any assertions based on any truth that I know over any one else. My entire contention is based on a rumor that when thought about from A point of view and considered with other information easily found concerning PTP makes for what could seem like a shady situation. Anyone can CLAIM anything they like. Heck I can claim I have a patent for this and until someone sues me I can do what I like, correct? And on the same note I am free to make any speculation I like until such time as proof/truth comes along. I imagine that it will soon enough one way or the other.

It was mentioned that G-Force has had a pneu framed marker on the market. Could it also be speculated that PTP has no real claim for their patent?
And of course as was mentioned it could be that the products differ enough to truly be different patents that do not infringe. In my mind that would bring implications as to how another blanket patent issue affecting our market has been so influential. I guess as was alluded to that it all comes down to who has the best lawyers.....

I am obviously not the ONLY person who is interested in knowing, but apparently the only one who "sacked up" (or was stupid)enough to ask.

Thanks TN, as always.

[going_home]

Lol, I find this reply funny. Is it that you (all) care so much that I am "stirring things up" as you put it, or the fact that you fear that you might be getting a product that came to market through less than honorable avenues?
Could it be that your desire to get the product at any cost or means distorts your judgement?

I am not making any assertions based on any truth that I know over any one else. My entire contention is based on a rumor that when thought about from A point of view and considered with other information easily found concerning PTP makes for what could seem like a shady situation. Anyone can CLAIM anything they like. Heck I can claim I have a patent for this and until someone sues me I can do what I like, correct? And on the same note I am free to make any speculation I like until such time as proof/truth comes along. I imagine that it will soon enough one way or the other.

It was mentioned that G-Force has had a pneu framed marker on the market. Could it also be speculated that PTP has no real claim for their patent?
And of course as was mentioned it could be that the products differ enough to truly be different patents that do not infringe. In my mind that would bring implications as to how another blanket patent issue affecting our market has been so influential. I guess as was alluded to that it all comes down to who has the best lawyers.....

I am obviously not the ONLY person who is interested in knowing, but apparently the only one who "sacked up" (or was stupid)enough to ask.

Thanks TN, as always.

Well put.
Now post a link to the site that said PTP sent a letter to GForce.

[punkncat]

Well put.
Now post a link to the site that said PTP sent a letter to GForce.

I decline. Do your own homework. Its not hidden, and didn't say that it was definate, just hinted so. What led to the comment is actually here on this site.

[going_home]

I decline. Do your own homework. Its not hidden, and didn't say that it was definate, just hinted so. What led to the comment is actually here on this site.

Huh

You started this thread with :

It has come out on another forum that there was the possiblity of some letter sent to G-Force by PTP concering this issue.

And now when asked twice you refuse to post it.
Then this thread is worthless sir.
No doubt.

[punkncat]

And now when asked twice you refuse to post it.
Then this thread is worthless sir.
No doubt.

As you wish. I am not counting on your approval rating....

[Beemer]

How long will this last before I have to edit, remove, lock or ban?

So All be warned so I dont have to :)

Hey Punk, this is AO just the facts please. Did you hear it thru the vine or did you read it somewhere? I thought you said both.

If I said BLaa Blaa Blaaa what would you say?

If I said TK told me Bla Blaaa Blaaa what would you say.

[Smoothice]

Huh

You started this thread with :



And now when asked twice you refuse to post it.
Then this thread is worthless sir.
No doubt.

I second that.

I tell you where he got the information from. A guy on another forums brothers sisters mechanic who came upon the information while in a dream about starwars.

Guys- How about we just stop posting in this useless, informationless, slandering thread and let it die the death it deserves.