Autococker KO'd by AGD !

[punkncat]

WOW!! I wonder how Bud feels....


AGD

If Bud had given half a rat's a...butt he wouldn't have sold it in the first place.

[kurtisqpublic]

If Bud had given half a rat's a...butt he wouldn't have sold it in the first place.

People get old and retire. Companies are sold... It happens to everybody sooner or later. From what I gather, Jeff Orr stayed in the picture didn't he?

[KevinA]

Did Bud step down before or after JT bought them out?

[kurtisqpublic]

Not sure. I haven't followed the market in years. I'm just getting back into the game, but Bud, Tom and all the old timers are great fellas and are a rare breed. They made the game great!

[KevinA]

Aye... that they are.

[ShotgunFacelift]

None too happy about this.

Ive used autocockers for my entire paintball life, in fact the same slider trigger has been on no less than 4 cockers over 7 years.

I had the vain hope that WGP products could ride back into the foreground with the recent move towards stock class play.

Looks like I'm going to be hoarding cocker parts for the foreseeable future.

[rabidchihauhau]

You have to remember that WGP is owned by the same corporation owning five or six other paintball companies as well. It's a massive holding company buying everything up they possibly can. Brass Eagle, Viewloader, Stryler, etc.

They've been clearancing Autocockers for quite a while now. In with their newer things and out with the cockers and such.

Just for the record:

Brass Eagle was a Canadian Manufacturer. Daisy purchased it. Then they took it public.

Then the acquired Viewloader and JT USA.

Then it was purchased by K2.

Then K2 purchased WGP

The Jarden purchased the whole shebang.

Jarden is not a 'holding company' per se. They are a manufacturing and distribution firm. They own Coleman brand, among others.

***

I REALLY wish I knew how the accountants and paintball management types bamboozled the big money guys into buying them - BE, NPS/PMI, ProCaps, Tippmann. How'd those guys 'cook the books' in a legal fashion that made it look - to experienced, jaded, out-for-profit-only money men, that paintball was actually growing, that they could actually achieve market dominance and would actually make a profit? I mean, how did they do it? Anyone on the inside with half a brain knew how overblown the industry was, how overly inflated the numbers claimed were - but they still went ahead and bought those companies.

BE was sold on the basis of the Stingray for gosh sakes! Yes, it was truly innovative and brought a lot of kids into the market, but - seriously. Are the guys that make the big bucks REALLY that stupid? (Yes, Daisy had good relations with walmart at the time, but they had NO deal to distribute paintball product through them when they made the purchase.)

Inside info hints that none of the big investors are really happy with what they bought; if they decide to dump those lines...

***

The REAL downturn in this industry began the very day that someone, somewhere said "this could be big. We need to get corporate America involved..."

[punkncat]

People get old and retire. Companies are sold... It happens to everybody sooner or later. From what I gather, Jeff Orr stayed in the picture didn't he?

The point is that had he really been concerned at that point what happened to the brand he would have considered who he was selling to and what their intentions were going to be. Selling to a super conglomerate as it was it is quite obvious even to the uninformed that at that point the only intrest was the number of positions on the check.

[kurtisqpublic]

The point is that had he really been concerned at that point what happened to the brand he would have considered who he was selling to and what their intentions were going to be. Selling to a super conglomerate as it was it is quite obvious even to the uninformed that at that point the only intrest was the number of positions on the check.

I see your point but when I retire I would be thinking of how big of a nest egg the sale of my company would render rather than how long will the product stick around after I'm gone. Leave the marketing research to the new owners, I'll be focused on beaches and relaxation!

[MAGslinger]

WGP went out of business when 2k2 bought it. What killed WGP?

1. They did not listen to the consumer base

2. They catered mainly to speedball

3. They shut out Woodsballers

4. They did not respond to the markets demand for Pump Paintball markers

5. Outsourcing in the paintball industry, making you products outside the USA, will kill your paintball company

Long live the Mag!

[BigEvil]

If Bud had given half a rat's a...butt he wouldn't have sold it in the first place.

Bud was smart. He got out when the gettin' was good. If someone waved a ton of cash in your face you would have done the same thing. (Me too!) :)

[Spider-TW]

I REALLY wish I knew how the accountants and paintball management types bamboozled the big money guys into buying them - BE, NPS/PMI, ProCaps, Tippmann. How'd those guys 'cook the books' in a legal fashion that made it look - to experienced, jaded, out-for-profit-only money men, that paintball was actually growing, that they could actually achieve market dominance and would actually make a profit? I mean, how did they do it? Anyone on the inside with half a brain knew how overblown the industry was, how overly inflated the numbers claimed were - but they still went ahead and bought those companies.

If you don't count the bloat of the last few years and tried to sell the business on the growth of total number paint and marker sales over the previous 10 years, I would think you would see some impressive numbers. However, given the way things kind of topped out, it looks like a real exponential curve, with the steep climb and the limit at saturation. They were probably looking for a position in the market and went for the easy in.

I think the internet has helped develop the market by reaching a lot more people, but that growth has also slowed. There's a lot of support and supply available on the internet (like Airgun Designs). It's like the internet is the main business forum for paintball now. Too bad shipping is so high on paint. :)

[Chronobreak]

I think the rumor of the cockers death has been greatly exagerated.


they are just clearing a bunch of old inventory from what the post said...unles im missing something

[going_home]

Burnt Toast

I think the rumor of the cockers death has been greatly exagerated.
they are just clearing a bunch of old inventory from what the post said...unles im missing something

You are missing something.

Taken from the thread on PBN (post #62) :

I really dont know the future of the cocker. I am currently wrapping things up here in carlsbad after that my days with Jt/wgp are done.

The cocker is as done as burnt toast.
Stick a fork in it.
At least thats what I'm reading between the lines.

[MAGslinger]

Once that inventory is sold off, expect to see a increased demand for Autocockers. The price of one, even a Pump one with the WGP trademarks WILL go up in price (as if it has not already.) As for Automag's, I am proud to own two of them and I am proud that they are located in my home state. Autocockers will live on, Budd will release the patents and you'll see more custom stuff in the years to come.