Tom should get a kick out of this one -

[cyrus-the-virus]

At least alian makes good markers at a good price...... LUXE anyone?

[grEnAlEins]

I can tell you, if a Shocker had out ranged the Flatline

Holy heck, I almost I had a heart attack at the ripe old age of 20. I first read "I can tell you, a Shocker had out ranged the Flatline" and I was shocked and confused. Upon re-reading I noticed the "if" :spit_take
Some goodies:

But seriously... a higher ROF does not mean a better gun.

Comming from a SP guy? LOL! I thought I'd never see the day :rofl:

If you increase the cycling speed of the gun, you increase the force applied to the paintball. Hence, you break more paint. I think I will trade ROF in for breaking less paint any day.

It is more accurate than my other guns, and had better range.

I guess I would say it has a flatter trajectory.

It is not a perception. I guess you are one of those people that think that the exit veolcity of a paintball gun will give you the same range no matter what type of gun it is?

:spit_take :rofl:

[B-Pow]

Wait....are they stealing the EGO's phoney marketing of "flatter trajectory" now?

It best they used the spit trick...it's old school and the kids these days don't get it.

1) stick finger in mouth (try not to retch at taste of paint residue)
2) whipe wet finger on inside wall (one area) of the tip of barrel
3) free APEX effect (curve shots, backspin for lift, forspin for drop shots)
4) ????
5) profit

That is if it's not a flat out lie.

If I could get to Tyger's website I'd link the scans to SP's glorious crap marketing in the mid 90's. Like that short bus special magic box. Or the priceless vid of the gardner brothers on camera discussing playing paintball...where they contradict themselves several times...I think he has that one on youtube as well.

[Toll]

Damned gravity gusts.

[Phaelynar]

The best part about that thread wasn't the flatter trajectory part, it's that Sean hijacked the guys thread, and when he knew his argument was made of fail, he quickly got a mod to come to his aid and make him look like the hero of getting the thread back on topic. Everyone should just go into that thread and report all of his posts for trolling, as he is in fact instigating an argument within a thread that has zero to do with that topic.

[snoopay700]

is it really that hard to understand that a marker cant do anything to the ball after it leaves the barrel? If 2 paintballs are shot at the same speed, with the same angle......WTF will make one go farther than another? some super vortex created by the low pressure must get in front of the ball and make it so that air resistance and gravity have no effect



one person did bring up a vaild point that I havent heard be4....different masses of paintballs. IDK if its true, never weighed a paintball. But if somehow one paintball is more dense and has the same shape/air resistance....then it will have a higher velocity down range than a lighter ball. They would both hit the ground at the same time, because gravity doesnt care about anything.....but the heavier ball would be farther down range, because its avg velocity over the whole arc will be higher than a lighter ball(even if the initial velocity is the same).

A denser paintball would actually mean that it weighed more than the less dense one, so gravity would care about it and would pull it down faster, so it would stay in the air for less time actually. However, you are right that it will travel farther, however it has been shown on this board (i tried searching but forget what to search for) that this difference isn't appreciable until the barrel is raised about 10 degrees, and then it's a few feet i think, and then further than that is when it really starts to matter. So in short, denser paint couldn't have been the culprit.

And Paint magnet, i know you're probably joking, but just so you know it doesn't use 3x the air, it uses just as much air as a mag in the dump chamber (roughly), it just has a larger volume. That's the only difference, they both use the same amount of air.

[Hilltop Customs]

A denser paintball would actually mean that it weighed more than the less dense one, so gravity would care about it and would pull it down faster, so it would stay in the air for less time actually. However, you are right that it will travel farther, however it has been shown on this board (i tried searching but forget what to search for) that this difference isn't appreciable until the barrel is raised about 10 degrees, and then it's a few feet i think, and then further than that is when it really starts to matter. So in short, denser paint couldn't have been the culprit.

gravity accelerates everything at the same rate....32 fps^2. Weight is just a measure of force....the force gravity is pulling on them. The fact that they are different weights has no signifance, they will both accelerate towards the ground at 32 feet per second.

Now if they were falling close to terminal velocity(say you shot a ball straight up) the heavy one would fall faster because the faster something falls the more air resistance(force) it builds up. Since the force of gravity pulling the heavy ball down is greater than the lighter ball, it would reach a higher terminal velocity because the force of gravity acting on a mass equalizes with the force of air resistance @ termial velocity.

[snoopay700]

gravity accelerates everything at the same rate....32 fps^2. Weight is just a measure of force....the force gravity is pulling on them. The fact that they are different weights has no signifance, they will both accelerate towards the ground at 32 feet per second.

Now if they were falling close to terminal velocity(say you shot a ball straight up) the heavy one would fall faster because the faster something falls the more air resistance(force) it builds up. Since the force of gravity pulling the heavy ball down is greater than the lighter ball, it would reach a higher terminal velocity because the force of gravity acting on a mass equalizes with the force of air resistance @ termial velocity.

GAH, whoops. As soon as i read the first half of your first sentence i realized my error, i was thinking force for some reason, can't explain why.

[cockerpunk]

gravity accelerates everything at the same rate....32 fps^2. Weight is just a measure of force....the force gravity is pulling on them. The fact that they are different weights has no signifance, they will both accelerate towards the ground at 32 feet per second.

Now if they were falling close to terminal velocity(say you shot a ball straight up) the heavy one would fall faster because the faster something falls the more air resistance(force) it builds up. Since the force of gravity pulling the heavy ball down is greater than the lighter ball, it would reach a higher terminal velocity because the force of gravity acting on a mass equalizes with the force of air resistance @ termial velocity.

right, but in the real world, we have air resistance.

a heavier ball has more interia and thus resists the force of air resistance, so it can fly farther.

shooting steel ball at 300 FPS it will certainly fly farther than a paintball due to its higher interia.

[manike]

right, but in the real world, we have air resistance.

a heavier ball has more interia and thus resists the force of air resistance, so it can fly farther.

shooting steel ball at 300 FPS it will certainly fly farther than a paintball due to its higher interia.

Very true, it's been a while since I measured and weighed paint, but there is an advantage to using heavier paint.

Most top tournament paints are made to be heavier. It's one way top tournaments teams used to "cheat". They had special paint made for them that was significantly heavier.

The other benefits are it's less likely to be affected by wind, and it carries more energy so it's more likely to break at the greater distances.

[Hilltop Customs]

right, but in the real world, we have air resistance.

a heavier ball has more interia and thus resists the force of air resistance, so it can fly farther.

shooting steel ball at 300 FPS it will certainly fly farther than a paintball due to its higher interia.

one person did bring up a vaild point that I havent heard be4....different masses of paintballs. IDK if its true, never weighed a paintball. But if somehow one paintball is more dense and has the same shape/air resistance....then it will have a higher velocity down range than a lighter ball. They would both hit the ground at the same time, because gravity doesnt care about anything.....but the heavier ball would be farther down range, because its avg velocity over the whole arc will be higher than a lighter ball(even if the initial velocity is the same).

same thing i was saying earlier in the thread....

[rabidchihauhau]

I was there for the tippman barrel challenge and I can tell you, if a Shocker had out ranged the Flatline we would have heard ALL ABOUT IT in the magazines at that time, not 10 years later.

Denny sold so many of those barrels, that he took the whole company to Disney World as a bonus. SP would have been all over that with their marketing hype if they could have taken a piece of him.

SP continues to be one of the most successful companies in paintball because telling people what they want to hear sells stuff.

AGD

That must have been AFTER I visited the target range at the World Cup with a pump gun. They had the netting over the range, but no banners. When we saw the 'trick' (no elevation) we just got down on our knees behind the table and had no trouble at all making the arc needed to hit the back wall.

We didn't do it to embarrass Ben or Denny - we went over when there was no one else around, and only did it to prove the point that when one oldskool woodsballer comes up with a trick, another oldskooler can come up with another one to top it. I think Ben's remark when asking us to leave was something like "you guys have been playing too long"

My favorite quote from the PBN thread was "the ball must have been moving faster at 30 feet than other balls" or some such.

Graham is an oldskool boy too and knows plenty of his own tricks. That paint most certainly was heavier paint and everyone knows its possible to 'thumb' a cocker and raise the velocity. But I don't even think Graham had to go that far; all he probably did was make sure that the balls he shot over the chrono were halfway down his barrel before shooting them...

[Beemer]

Very true, it's been a while since I measured and weighed paint, but there is an advantage to using heavier paint.

Most top tournament paints are made to be heavier. It's one way top tournaments teams used to "cheat". They had special paint made for them that was significantly heavier.The other benefits are it's less likely to be affected by wind, and it carries more energy so it's more likely to break at the greater distances.

You dont think they still do? What was significantly heavier.
What about size? Lets go small and heavy at 300fps.

[drg]

That's what Proball was all about.

[rabidchihauhau]

Now, Now Beemer.

We've had this discussion how many times?

Heck, back in the day, I'd have been injecting mercury into my paintballs if I hadn't been worried about poisoning someone.

Until ASTM came along, there was NO regulation covering the weight or size of a paintball, other than the "restricted to paintballs nominally .68 caliber in size".

Nominal by what measure? Within what percentage? 5%? That could be anything from 65 caliber to 71.5 caliber... 10% would be 61.2 to almost 75 caliber...

And, since we're dealing with a sphere, a 5% increase in diameter really ups the volume.

I never checked, but I'd be curious to know what the weight of the ORIGINAL Nelson paint was - the oil-based stuff. I'd be interested in comparing that weight to a graphite-coated late 80's/early 90's RPScherer ball.

Very true, a ball that weighs the maximum ASTM allowable weight that was, say, 60 caliber, would most likely get better range and accuracy because of the reduction of wind-resistance - certainly when compared to a 68 caliber ball of the same weight.

But then, no one checks paint before an event anyhow. Never did, and probably never will. I call that a safety/insurance issue - but then, what do I know?