classic SP lie debunked

[cockerpunk]

I have threadjacked a thread in the DLX Forum, which I do apologize for. So, this will be the new thread for the backseat engineers. Let me tell a little story...

Back in 99 or 2000, Tippmann debuted the Flatline barrel. They had this target rage setup that challenged people to shoot the back targets. The Range was about 40 yards in length, and utilized banners so people could not arc their guns to hit the targets. Obviously, with a Flatline and Tippmann 98, you could hit the back targets all day and night. Ben Tippmann was the guy running the target range when I went up to it to shoot my KAPP Cocker. I had it all decked out with Tornado valve.. etc. I chrono'd my gun @ 300fps using their chono at the range which was a red radar one. I then shot my gun, and I could not hit the back targets. My balls were rolling up to the end. Graham Easton from Smart Parts comes up with a Shocker 4X4. He chrono'd it at 265, and then proceeded to hit the back targets. Ben Tippmann told him that he had to leave.

I am not saying that Lower pressure makes it shoot further. And I saw this when I was a Smart Parts hater as well. Only a few guns I have seen have been able to shoot futher then other guns at the same velocity. The old Shocker, the DM4, and the original Matrix. Why is this?? I am also going to do an actual test on this to proove it when I have time. That might take me awhile as well to do. I am a very busy man. But, why do you think that the Shocker 4x4 could hit the back targets and nothing else could except by using a Flatline? I really would like to know and I know that there are plenty of back seat engineers that would love to tackle this one.

But I remember being shot by shockers many times and telling those people to chrono, and they were under the field speed. Which led me to belive that the ball was travelling faster at 30 ft then any other gun I had seen at the time.

I am not making a false claim. My original post is something I saw with my own eyes back when even I was a Smart Parts hater

For me, the luxe seemed flatter on the trajectory. I have to play with it more before I can say anything like I did in my first post. I have seen the 4X4 shoot further than my cocker chrono'd 35 fps than mine.

I do not just make stuff up.

If I am wrong on what I saw, I will be more than happy to say I was wrong.

If the tests prove me 100% wrong, then I will say so.

well, your 100% wrong.

me and bryce did our testing this morning, on a nice sunny day, about 75 out, with winds less than 5 mph, and it was a cross wind.

the rig was a gun chronograph, set on a bench. the barrel of each gun was placed on a stand behind the chonro, and a level used on the barrel to level the gun. each gun was fired about 30 times. we could easily see (though you might not on the youtube quality video, where the balls ended up at a range of 100 ft, at an initial angel of 0 degrees and a initial height of about 3 feet. leveling the guns was tricky becuase many guns have changed OD on there barrels, but we found a place to get the level on there easy enough.

bryce read the chrono, held the tip of the barrel down and made sure i was level, i shot the guns, and my girlfriend filmed it.

the results -

at 260 to 270 the balls would hit the plywood

at 275ish they would hit the middle rung of the fence

at 280 to 290 they would pass between the top and middle rungs of the fence

and at 300 or above they would hit or fly over the top rung of the fence

REGARDLESS OF WHAT GUN WE USED

it got the point where before bryce even read off the chrono speed, i could tell within a few FPS what the chrono speed was, based on where the ball passed though the fence.

YOUR GUN DOES NOT MATTER.

videos -

intro - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X1i8Uhwss0

testing - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfJmHct2tlc

final thoughts - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSyFr4me0kM

while this test was hardly even scientific, the results and consistency we got with the rig shocked me. we tried to replicate what sean said happened, and we couldn't (without breaking any rules). billy is wrong, sean is wrong, and the whole thing just simply did not happen the way the story was told. it could not have happened.

as for the recoilish, wobbly mount test, we basically just did it. i held and shot the guns, and bryce made sure the barrel did not move to far out of alignment. none of the guns we shot had any difference, and they all had very different recoil characteristics. it did not matter. recoil does not matter except in burst fire.

[Resurection]

well, your 100% wrong.

me and bryce did our testing this morning, on a nice sunny day, about 75 out, with winds less than 5 mph, and it was a cross wind.

the rig was a gun chronograph, set on a bench. the barrel of each gun was placed on a stand behind the chonro, and a level used on the barrel to level the gun. each gun was fired about 30 times. we could easily see (though you might not on the youtube quality video, where the balls ended up at a range of 100 ft, at an initial angel of 0 degrees and a initial height of about 3 feet. leveling the guns was tricky becuase many guns have changed OD on there barrels, but we found a place to get the level on there easy enough.

bryce read the chrono, held the tip of the barrel down and made sure i was level, i shot the guns, and my girlfriend filmed it.

the results -

at 260 to 270 the balls would hit the plywood

at 275ish they would hit the middle rung of the fence

at 280 to 290 they would pass between the top and middle rungs of the fence

and at 300 or above they would hit or fly over the top rung of the fence

REGARDLESS OF WHAT GUN WE USED

it got the point where before bryce even read off the chrono speed, i could tell within a few FPS what the chrono speed was, based on where the ball passed though the fence.

YOUR GUN DOES NOT MATTER.

videos -

intro - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X1i8Uhwss0

testing - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfJmHct2tlc

final thoughts - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSyFr4me0kM

while this test was hardly even scientific, the results and consistency we got with the rig shocked me. we tried to replicate what sean said happened, and we couldn't (without breaking any rules). billy is wrong, sean is wrong, and the whole thing just simply did not happen the way the story was told. it could not have happened.

as for the recoilish, wobbly mount test, we basically just did it. i held and shot the guns, and bryce made sure the barrel did not move to far out of alignment. none of the guns we shot had any difference, and they all had very different recoil characteristics. it did not matter. recoil does not matter except in burst fire.

{in my best british accent} "I'm not dead yet!"

[insixdays777]

BURN!!!!!!!!!

[questionful]

Let's all look up our PBN passwords and spam that thread with these links!!!

[punkncat]

{in my best british accent} "I'm not dead yet!"

Monty FTW

[snoopay700]

Good job, hopefully he'll admit he's wrong, and i hope he just doesn't say that it's not a good test because you didn't use something to hold the gun.

The one thing that that video left me wondering (still) is how old cockerpunk is, because he looks like he's not above 21 at the most, and sounds a bit younger than that, yet he talks like he was fairly old in 97, so yeah, i'm just not even sure because if i'm right that means he was about 10 or 11 then.

[cockerpunk]

Good job, hopefully he'll admit he's wrong, and i hope he just doesn't say that it's not a good test because you didn't use something to hold the gun.

The one thing that that video left me wondering (still) is how old cockerpunk is, because he looks like he's not above 21 at the most, and sounds a bit younger than that, yet he talks like he was fairly old in 97, so yeah, i'm just not even sure because if i'm right that means he was about 10 or 11 then.

im 21

[snoopay700]

im 21

Ok, just the way you said that you don't know if people remembered it you sounded like you might be a lot older, and i just know that you were in school, didn't know if you were on your first time around or going back or what, but the way you talk on the boards has confused me on that subject for a while.

[questionful]

So if I send these to "Sean@smartpartswest" he should get them? In case he somehow misses the several other identical emails?

[Hilltop Customs]

wait, so what is this thing everyone is talking about......I think they called it physics or something. Ahhh its just a bunch of bull anyhow.....I mean I saw the gun shoot farther with my own eyes, you believe me dont you?

No?

Are you serious why wouldnt you believe me, it really happened! Why would I lie to you? Dont believe all those other guys with their fancy physics mumbo jumbo, i mean physics is just a guidelines, its not like their are universal laws or anything.

[thejere]

? Dont believe all those other guys with their fancy physics mumbo jumbo, i mean physics is just a guidelines, its not like their are universal laws or anything.

Sarcasm? It never comes across well on the web

[cockerpunk]

humans have only been studying projectile motion for the last ... almost 300 years?

seems like that guy newton or whatever might have been onto something ...

[Enemy]

wait, so what is this thing everyone is talking about......I think they called it physics or something. Ahhh its just a bunch of bull anyhow.....I mean I saw the gun shoot farther with my own eyes, you believe me dont you?

No?

Are you serious why wouldnt you believe me, it really happened! Why would I lie to you? Dont believe all those other guys with their fancy physics mumbo jumbo, i mean physics is just a guidelines, its not like their are universal laws or anything.

Hahahahaha so do you mean to tell me that if i fire a gun level to the ground and drop the bullet/ball they wont hit the ground at the exact same time??wow im in shock

[questionful]

Sarcasm? It never comes across well on the web

Oh I think it came across pretty well there.

I read a biography of newton. That guy was a nut. He saw everything differently than everyone else. The book had an interesting quote, something like "before newton's time, no one felt gravity when they raised their arms." Back then, when you thought about why stuff falls, it was "just because". It seemed completely natural. I guess most people are fine with believing stuff "just because." I bet SP knows all about that.

[Arstron]

So I guess the apple really can fall far from the apple tree, if its a low preasure apple?

Perhaps smart parts needs a new slogan, "Smart Parts, Debunking Sir Isaac Newton one paintball at a time."