XMOD Use Agreement (no legal garbage)

[Ruler_Mark]

Ya I see that coming.

But, but, but I can send my mag to Ruler_Mark at ModMyMag and he will do it for free. Looks like you been used and that is sad.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2479772&postcount=10

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=226263

Yeap I do not do that anymore. I do agd software flashes for free, talking to lorne on a resolution for xmod flashes.


Edit: as to the license, He can alter/edit it at anytime.

[VVulfe]

Hi all, new AO'er here. I've been following this discussion for a bit, and find it rather relevant to myself as I'm a compsci student. I'm not posting to attack anyone, and it's certainly not my intent to flame, troll, or otherwise pick fights.

That said, I hope to offer a little insight here.

In the software world, there's a concept known as "open source." In a paragraph or less, the gist of open source is that the computer world benefits when a program is sold/given/traded along with its source code, and that the end-user is (generally) encouraged to trade and modify the software - so long as they continue to provide the source code. It's a powerful, and beneifical tool, of which I'm a proponent.

By that same token, an open source solution isn't always the appropriate one.

As has been mentioned, one of the things that makes it tricky in this modern day and age to recognize the value of coding is the fact that when it's given or taken, it's more often that not duplicated. If someone, let's call him Joe, designs and makes a paintball gun and sells it to, say Steve, and then Steve resells that gun - there's still only one gun on the market, for which Joe's time and effort was compensated at the first point of sale.

With code, however, it's duplicated. As a result, Joe ends up in a position where while he's spent the time and effort to write software - and has a market to sell it to - unless the first level of buyers remove it from their hardware if they're to resell it, suddenly the market finds itself with more products than Joe sold, and money is moving around without any compensation going to the fellow who spent sleepless nights staring at a console.

Lorne has an interesting setup here - he's not selling the code, he's selling the hardware required to install the code. In essence, he's providing what's often referred to as a "site license" - you, the buyer, are entitled to flashing all the hardware you have on site - or later acquire. However, because this right is granted to you - not the gun - Lorne's asking that something happen should that gun leave your possession.

By removing XMOD from any guns you're keeping, and selling the programmer - you've essentially sold your site license and replicated the situation where Joe sells Steve a marker. You haven't increased the number of goods on the market, and you've compensated - in this case, Lorne - for the time and effort required to create a single site license.

The other situations that Lorne's outlined seem to be an attempt to keep this principle alive.

Yes, perhaps it's a bit late in the game to do so, but by that same token I would hope that we as a community - the larger paintball, and smaller AGD owner community - can recognize the value that Lorne's provided through his efforts. The cost of his license is less than a lot of us spend on paint over the weekend, and I like to think that we're willing to band together to support a guy who's done a good thing for e-Mag owners.

But let's look at it pragmatically as well - it's unfair, I think, to expect someone to support, troubleshoot and update software without compensation. It's about recognizing effort, and encouraging it. We, as owners, benefit from ensuring that Lorne's not left hanging in the breeze for his work. If he's able to remain solvent, he'll be around for a lot longer and able to keep our gun-code in good shape.

Just my $.02 :)

[bjyourk]

Well said, but again, it is a dead issue. He's made his request of a "donation"...thats all that can be done. It's out there, people know about it(or will in short order), and will do what they feel they need to. We can't chastise people for their decision.

Those of you who feel so strongly about it, give some money, and those that don't...well, I certainly am not going to fret and dwell on it.

Again, that was a great post VVulf, ver informative, but lets keep it in its simplest form and not all this license agreement B.S.

LorneCash has produced a great product and lets just continue to support it and him HOWEVER you see fit.


Note: yes, I know he did not JUST ask for money, but my guess would be that is most peoples hangup.(been wrong once before, though)

[JesseB]

makes sense now...

but I don't understand why you made it so readily available and copyable in the first place.

Good luck hope it works out in your favor

[Hexis]

So what is the expectation of someone who got their emag flashed by Lornecash? In both the case that I perpetually keep my emag, or sell it?

[LorneCash]

you guys both missed the first line...
"Here's what I ASK"

you're right if you want to steal from me I can't stop you nor will I try. I am simply asking that the honest people in this world follow my guidelines. I am not asking anyone to sign or verbally agree to anything as long as we're being honest do you think that would really have stopped you from doing anything anyways?

[bjyourk]

My point...pretty much. Except I would be careful with any accusatory statements or that include the word "steal". Your are more apt to win over the public with a simple plea. You can THINK all you want how this situation is but if you are asking for compliance, that is the WRONG way to go about it. Make yourself out to be the victim, not the [Edit]!


Edit...WARNING, circumvent the filter or flame again and you will be banned.

[Beemer]

you guys both missed the first line...
"Here's what I ASK"

you're right if you want to steal from me I can't stop you nor will I try. I am simply asking that the honest people in this world follow my guidelines. I am not asking anyone to sign or verbally agree to anything as long as we're being honest do you think that would really have stopped you from doing anything anyways?

I expect people to own a programmer... if you own a programmer it's not a problem to flash 3.2 back on. It takes longer to get the screws out than to flash the software. I dont' hate people for trying to get a deal like you did but It would be nice if there were some donations people who got the software without buying a programmer... but you're probably not going to be sending me any money so I'll tell you what I still have 20-30ish programmers here if I sell all of them I will post the fully commented source code on AO.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=232298

There ya go.

Way to go AO. You are the first to cry and whine when things dont go your way with a dealer
and then you turn around and stick it to a guy that spent HIS OWN time and cash to give you what you want.

[LorneCash]

So what is the expectation of someone who got their emag flashed by Lornecash? In both the case that I perpetually keep my emag, or sell it?

Updated to include that possibility check the agreement again

[teufelhunden]

So, if I had a programmer and sold it, you would "require" what?

Assume that any guns I had were flashed to non-Xmod software.

[BigEvil]

Way to go AO. You are the first to cry and whine when things dont go your way with a dealer
and then you turn around and stick it to a guy that spent HIS OWN time and cash to give you what you want.

^
What he said.


Lornecash was the ONLY one to step up to the plate and deliver any kind of software upgrade for the E/X Mag. His own time, his own money. He certainly will not be getting rich off of this endeavor. If anything this will just be an example to anyone else who is considering producing AGD upgrades.

If it wasnt for the Xmod, the Emag would be dead and buried.

[mpsd]

Yep! And thanks to Lorne, here is my e-Mag, training for the 2006 Brazilian National Paintball Cup:



And I can say that this gun stil has the best trigger feel of all my guns as of today.

[behemoth]

How long has Xmod been out, and this is just coming about?

Honestly man, you boned yourself by selling programmers.

Shouldve just done a solid 50 dollar flash fee, and done it all yourself.

[B-Pow]

Am I being greedy by asking every person who uses my software to pay me for it?

Now I don't own an e-mag (and probably never will because they are still worth a good piece of coin and my marker needs are met already) so you can call me a unaffected third party.

In the present climate there are several solutions to any software problem that are free to the end user, linux and most of it's builds (fedora, ubuntu, slackware, etc.), spyware killers (spybot, adaware, etc.), media players (windows media player, quicktime, winamp, etc.) the list goes on and on...and the software there is completely free (some may contain versions you can pay for...that may or may not include more features).

Even when a company demands to get paid for their software...it rarely happens. When I built my current desktop my friends were shocked I actually bought a copy of windows instead of just pirateing it. Valve's steam project (in the first few years of it's launch) was ripe for piracy, one cd key could have been logged on from infinate systems...it was a complete possiblity to have millions of players playing counter strike from one CD key...this was fixed some time in 2004, I know because I was no longer able to play counter strike on my friend's key. There is a silly number of illegal copys of windows running out there, the same can be said for visual studio, or any other program pack that costs a significant ammount of money.

Hell several copies of word that I own and my copy of visual studio are technally illegal, they have their individual cd keys and were "purchased" but were obtained for next to nothing on the student software purchase prices while I was in college and I was supposed to uninstall and dispose of the materals at the end of the school year....not happening, especially since those versions are still supported.

Protecting software is like trying to stop the wind...you can try all you want but it's going to get through...maybe in small bits...but it can't be stopped. Which for me kind of sucks as I am a computer programmer by profession.

---------------

now after all that I think I kind of shot my self in the foot on my question...but I've alwayas wanted to "talk shop" with you lorne...about the language you used...and some of the coding hurdles in this project. I have had the oppertunity to borrow an e-mag for a day that had XMOD and I was quite impressed with it's function and functionality. That and I've always had the desire to look at your code and disect it....pick at it...learn something from it.

[LorneCash]

now after all that I think I kind of shot my self in the foot on my question...but I've alwayas wanted to "talk shop" with you lorne...about the language you used...and some of the coding hurdles in this project. I have had the oppertunity to borrow an e-mag for a day that had XMOD and I was quite impressed with it's function and functionality. That and I've always had the desire to look at your code and disect it....pick at it...learn something from it.

It was done in Atmel's AT90S2313 assembly language... if you want to know my hurdles you can read through my original development thread E/X-Mag Microcontroller Programming (Atmel AT90S2313) where I picked many brains to fugure some stuff out.

I have also promised to post the fully commented source code when the last of my programmers sell... I have 24 left and when they're gone they're gone and I'm washing my hands of this project.