An hypothesis for a lighter, more efficient air system than HPA.

[halB]

CO2 is much more efficient than HPA- since it can become a liquid. The tanks are also lighter as they do not have to withstand the same pressures.

But, it freezes the gun up because the liquid to gas conversion absorbs muy amounts of heat. The faster you shoot the gun, the less able the liquid is to absorb the necessary amount of energy to turn into a gas.

Propane is the most efficient liquid, at least when it is combusted. Many companies attempted it, but right now the only gun that uses it is a pump gun - because rapid fire heats the gun up too fast, and the gun is not able to release the energy fast enough - putting the consumer and gun at risk.



Betwixt the two we shall find the truth.

Combine them. One small propane tank combined with a slightly larger CO2 tank. The CO2 could work the lp and the propane the hp. They'll keep each other at the appropriate temperature.

Feel free to use.

[punkncat]

Personally I would not want to hassle with a system that required two different systems to run. The combination of the two and the containment of it could easily outweigh an HPA tank. The ease of using HPA and most modern markers ability to shoot well over 1000 balls on a fill (68/45) justs makes everything else inconsequential to me.

[Spider-TW]

I don't think you would use enough CO2 in the low pressure side to take advantage of the efficiency nor provide sufficient cooling for propane at a fair firing rate. Have you tried a heat balance yet? That would tell you where the limits are.

With a controller, you could mix the firing modes, which would be some trick, but the heat flow would be there.

Not saying it would be convenient or an easy fill either...

[snoopay700]

It's too much hassle for what you get. You would have to probably invert them or something because teh co2 wouldn't cool the gunn enough with how much would be used. It would be a pain to engineer and just doesn't have enough advantages.

[teufelhunden]

attach a radiator to the gun

[snoopay700]

attach a radiator to the gun

So you take weight away, and add it in a different place?

[Empyreal Rogue]

Doesn't propane have explosive tendencies? Paintball guns are infamous for leaks, so what happens when you gather together 500+ people for a scenario event all shooting propane fueled markers playing a sport where a large percentage of players smoke?

The idea seems too impractical, anyway. I can't imagine how a two air system would be better (and lighter) than a system that runs off a single air source. Not to mention HPA can be generated from thin air, both CO2 and Propane cannot be. Thus you're forced to drive up costs as you have to have CO2 tanks refilled, or new ones sent in; same situation with propane and gas companies. HPA compressors essentially pay for themselves over time. You buy it, maintain it, and that's all there is to it. That's why air prices have dropped significantly from the days of when CO2 was the predominant air source.

[Ken Majors]

...on a lighter note...

If the LP explodes....the CO2 will put the flames out before you burn up.

So all you'll have to deal with is the trauma from all the shrapnel wounds and blast injuries.


That was a joke

[malJohann]

I think in future you will see more inboard compressors like with the NPS eVolt concept. Alternatively a mechanism coupled to your body movement can also recharge your air source, this would of course force you to move, which is not a bad thing IMO.

[BigEvil]

Are HP tanks so awful? The hopper fully of paint sitting on top of the gun is more bothersome to me than the tank.

Little tiny agg gun + 45/4500 hp tank then a big gawky Magna loader on top? Kinda defeats the purpose IMO. Then again, im strange.

[kruger]

....and, co2 will not allow the Propane to ignite in the combustion chamber. Unless you are using the co2 to actually cool the chamber seperatly. Then all you did was add another tank.

[malJohann]

Are HP tanks so awful? The hopper fully of paint sitting on top of the gun is more bothersome to me than the tank.

Little tiny agg gun + 45/4500 hp tank then a big gawky Magna loader on top? Kinda defeats the purpose IMO. Then again, im strange.

You're not, it's the same reason why I got a Q-loader, but hoppers have their advantages, like for example being able to shoot while reloading.

[snoopay700]

....and, co2 will not allow the Propane to ignite in the combustion chamber. Unless you are using the co2 to actually cool the chamber seperatly. Then all you did was add another tank.

It sounded to me like he meant a spool valve type marker, have propane in the dump chamber and it ignites, then co2 to push it back and cool down the dump chamber. This would also probably make for some fairly inconsistent velocities.

[Spider-TW]

In addition to all that, you would probably have to cool the barrel as well, so that it wouldn't melt the gelatin.

Now, if you start thinking Gatling type gun instead of marker, you could use the co2 to rotate and purge the barrels and maybe have enough for cooling. You would have to plan on feeding liquid co2 to the mechanism at some point (or full time) though. Four barrels, for fire, vent, load, and charge.

This might work with a propane powered scenario tank (a Mad Max scenario).

[RavishingEddie]

I am working on this.

Hello I am very surprised at this thread because I am currently attempting to design a semi automatic propane powered paintball gun. I am just starting to scratch the surface here, but I have found many ways to deal with the heat issue. My only problem is finding a way to add oxygen to the propane mixture without using an air tank.

I am currently studying the mechanics of this to help me think of a solution.
Basically, if I could find a way to use the excess combustion to cycle the gun for the next shot like the AK-47 then I would eliminate the need to use compressed air or CO2.




advantages of propane:

1. Consistency
2. Efficiency 5000 + shots
3. Cheap
4. Safe. propane tank is only 150 psi. Compressed air tank is 3000 or 4500 psi.


Disadvantages of propane:

1. Generates heat (possible solutions found)
2. Requires oxygen to work ( researching)