Why do people think paintball is dead or dying?

[Miltonyz]

The Ion is a cheap piece of crap. Heck I thought the Impulse was a piece of crap and it was much more expensive. However the Ion is a cheap piece of crap that filled a market niche.

The automag is a great gun. I love them. But sadly their market niche is small.

I'm not sure how we got on that tangent though. You said quality sucked now and used to be much better. I think quality of both paint and gear is better is better then it's ever been. Sure the ion is poop, but back in the day there where plenty of poop guns.

As for your hatred of kids there is not much to say. How much fun you have playing paintball is completely up to you. You dont wanna play with little punks find some older friends to play with. Find a field that regulates attitudes better. Change your attitude.

[rb211]

To me, from 20+ years playing the sport, there are several things that have affected it:

1. Prices.

There is good and bad in this. Cost of paint has gone down, I remember the $120 days of paint. If it were that much now, I probably wouldn't be playing still.

Entry fees for tournaments have gone up over 20 years. The first tournament I played in (woods) was $25. It's a lot more than that now that "big business" has gotten involved and has turned things into a 3 ring circus.

The general outlook equipment-wise (this is the player's fault). The average tournament player seems to believe that if you are not shooting the newest and greatest $1500 gun, that you are playing with inferior equipment and will get slaughtered on the field. Skill has been replaced by equipment ability in a lot of player's minds. I distinctly remember 2 tourney players getting all kinds of upset because I whacked both of them with a Minimag - not because I had probably been playing paintball longer than they were alive, but because of the Minimag.

2. The player.

On the field: Attitudes have changed drastically over the years. Back then, cheating wasn't hardly anything of a factor in the games. As I remember it the sportsmanship of the game was taken very seriously. Today, I see people cheating like crazy!

Back then, I was never threatened by a 12 year old that he would kick my a** because I shot him out, now, well at least I get a good laugh when it has happened . Look on Youtube, plenty of fistfights are on there that are paintball related. It's just a game!

Off the field: Well, some are just stupid. Getting in the car on a friday night and doing a paintball drive-by on the local wino on the park bench is not the best thing that the player has conributed to the sport. Yes, this has nothing to do with the sport itself, but the media doesn't distinguish that. When I first started playing, you didn't hear of such things.

People tinkering with markers or tanks when they have no idea of what they are doing. Shooting their eyes out or their friends when they are trying to shoot the apple off of their head is just plain stupid - once again, the media makes it worse when they get a hold of these stories / videos. Air tanks blowing up or turning into missiles because the owner just has to take the valve off and grease or oil it in every area that it isn't supposed to be because "it will work better". Respect your gear, and it will take care of you. If you don't know what you are doing or haven't been trained, don't mess with it!

These things contribute negatively to the overall image of the sport, and it is being done in a manner that the media gets involved and throws it into the toilet faster than you can deposit a fresh loaf.


3. Manufacturers

They have played things good and bad. They have brought paintball to the spotlight, and they are also pushing it out of the spotlight.

How many of us are really willing to spend in the $1000+ range for a gun every year to keep up with the latest "fad gun" or equipment? I'm certainly not. I don't need a Dye Rotor that can feed balls faster than any gun can, my Reloader B handles it just fine. My 6 year old Attack Pack carries pods of paint just as good as the first day I used it. Spending $200 on the latest agg pants and jersey - forget it! Jeans and a t-shirt do me just fine, just as it did 20+ years ago, well, shorts in the dead of the summer..... But as I stated above, they have led the average player to believe that it is necessary to have the high dollar stuff to be competitive.

Could I keep up with the latest? Sure, but I choose not to as far as having the newest guns / equipment. I have 4 Impulses right now, now all of them back in their day were $1000+ guns (private label models). I don't have more than $250-300 in any of them fully upgraded (that and I won't buy new SP guns because of their business practices). They can be heavy after toting them for a while, but your Ego, Luxe, DM50, or anything else isn't going to shoot 15bps (or lower, depending on what league / division you are in) any faster than any of mine, and I don't have the problems that I see some of the others having with reliability.

Point being, most new players don't think they can be competitive unless they have all the new stuff, unless they get around people who show them that they can be competitive by concentrating on playing the game smart instead of relying on their gear to get them through the game. I believe this is why SP, Dye, and others have brought out the cheaper lines like the Ion, SLG, etc. They see that a lot of players dont have the money or parental subsidy to buy the top of the line guns, so they have introduced alternatives. One of the smartest business moves I have seen from them.

Business practice - well, we have had enough of those discussions on here to where most of us know what has happened to companies over the years. There are cheerleaders and haters for every company out there, deserved and undeserved.

4. Economy.

A lot of self-sufficient people like myself just aren't spending money these days. I don't play as much as I used to, I try to save more money these days. I'll jump on a good deal, but not without a lot of thinking to go along with it to justify my desire for whatever it is.

I make a lot more than I did 20 years ago, but with the rising costs of basic needs (food, gas, shelter, etc.), I find myself cutting down the "disposable" income margin and applying it to more important things. I don't play as often as I did as a result of this, and I'm quite sure I'm not the only one who's doing this.

Christ - I feel like I've written a book!

[afortuna]

Cheap quality paint - $40
All day air - $5
Field fee - $10

That is $55 to play. I don't shoot cheap quality paint, because I'd like to hit what I aim at. I can also make a case of paint last two days, because I dont' subscribe to "Accuracy by Volume."

Still, $55.00 to play one day is almost the price of admission at Disneyland. It isn't cheap. This doesn't include food, gas, travel time, or equipment cost to play. Paintball is not cheap to play.

[dave p]

and for the record, i dont hate kids. I have 2. one happens to be 13. I spend a lot of time with my kids doing all kinds of stuff, paintball just isnt one of them. skateboarding is something i do do with them, just to put it in perspective.

hell, today i gave a group of 12-13 year olds a ramp i built with my own hands for free, because the skatepark got closed on them. just so they would have something to skate. true story.

i just feel that when the industry started taking direction from kids, it all went downhill. when the industry became an industry, and let money regulate it instead of safety it all went downhill. when guns started looking like basketball sneakers, it went down hill.

[Riddler236]

don't let big business involvement and teenage e-peens ruin it for you.

go back to what was fun for you. play at a local field that reminds you of the things you love about the sport support them and manufacturers that you like. play with people interested in the same thing. there are plenty of us around.

[Ninjeff]

and for the record, i dont hate kids. I have 2. one happens to be 13. I spend a lot of time with my kids doing all kinds of stuff, paintball just isnt one of them. skateboarding is something i do do with them, just to put it in perspective.

hell, today i gave a group of 12-13 year olds a ramp i built with my own hands for free, because the skatepark got closed on them. just so they would have something to skate. true story.

i just feel that when the industry started taking direction from kids, it all went downhill. when the industry became an industry, and let money regulate it instead of safety it all went downhill. when guns started looking like basketball sneakers, it went down hill.

No offense dude, but sounds like "old guy syndrome" to me. Just like how music sucks now and the only good music was the music that was good when i was younger.....and the old people thought THAT music sucked....and so on and so on.

Look, i see plenty of kids falling in love with the game. I see plenty of kids that are well behaved, respectful, and that yearn to play better. I also see the occasional attitude flare-up but its hardly limited to kids.
The tounament scene is dying, not paintball. The tourney scene is suffocating under its own weight. What it needs if one governing body, and one universal format/rulebook/point system.
But paintball, the sport, is doing ok. Check out a scenario game some time. They are way..WAY bigger than when i started in 97. Huge in fact.

And as far as "punk ***" kids who think a gun makes you good, well, its true. But arent MOST teenagers that way with ANYTHING? Fashion, music, sports, cars, everything. Thats part of being a teenager.
Still, if you want to fix the attitude, how about you mentor some kids. Teach them the finer points, teach them how to play the game...how to respect the game. Maybe they dont respect the old-school because all they ever get form us older players in flack about how "they dont have a clue how it used to be" or how"they dont do it right" and nonsense like that. When i was 17 i had a bunch of the older players take me under their wing and teach me those things....i never forgot em, and its what keeps me playing to this day.

[chafnerjr]

I think that this is giving me a good understanding of what's going down. The tourny scene is in trouble... but we've all been watching that for some time now. I'm actually pretty darned glad to know that it's only the pro/am side of things that everyone sees as in trouble. They'll come out of it at some point... or not, but either way paintball is not going to dye. There are just too many of us who love the sport. That's what I was trying to dig out with this post.

About the tourny scene... my brother in law cleared up a lot of thoughts I had on this. There needs to be a place for those that NEED to win. We all talk about those who have a need to win and those who just want to play. Tourny paintball can separate those pretty darned well... then again there are those who just want to be on a team. My brother explained to me one day that he just liked playing on a team now that high school is well behind us. He doesn't play hockey or softball so there are no other team sports he can play. Tourny paintball covers that for him, win or lose... though he prefers to win of course.

Glad to know you're all out there and care about the sport enough to keep these sorts of discussions going.

Hell I post this and get 20 responses and but a posting of my wifes new phoenix pneumag only get's two. heh heh heh.

[Smoothice]

The tourny scene is in trouble... but we've all been watching that for some time now. I'm actually pretty darned glad to know that it's only the pro/am side of things that everyone sees as in trouble.

Its the pro am side that gives this a "sport" feeling. Without it perhaps paintball is just a hobby.

I'm sure o.k with that.

Hell I post this and get 20 responses and but a posting of my wifes new phoenix pneumag only get's two. heh heh heh.

Thats because you haven't posted pictures of the wife yet

[MANN]

why paintball is dying.

the people that play. It is just different "these days". mind you I started playing in ~ 94-95

Miscue hit the nail on the head

Originally Posted by Miscue
I dislike paintball now very much... I'd still play if it were all mech. I only go to AO events now.

IMO... electronics + paintball = complete BS. It creates so many problems, does not make the game better (different maybe), etc.

The bastards on the field got WORSE with electros. Before it was one thing if you were a big jerk and could only pull the trigger at 5bps. Now rat bastards have an electronic device that shoots itself to be a super rat bastard. I am sick as hell of being ridiculously overshot by goddamn 13 year old POS cheating bastards who over-celebrate their wins that were won by cheating big time... thinking to ourselves that we shot that mofo 3 times that's rubbing the win in our faces telling us how much we suck... and if we had a clean game they'd get destroyed.

The incentive to move has been lost... the clean game is dead. Too many dirtbags play this game.

I can't get a clean game. WTF is the purpose of spending so much time, money, and effort on something when the game is played so dirty? Why don't I just buy a case of paint for my opponents, ask to be kicked in the nuts, and go home a "loser"?

I dont think that electric markers are what did it necessarily, but in the hands of someone who does not respect the game it makes it less than enjoyable.

[nevets11_2003]

it is dieing, and the sooner the better.

and there are less guns available than ever, not more. you can get a tippman, dye, smartparts, some K2 wgp crap or some chinese made POS. unless you want to go used.

people have had enough, of the high prices, the high stakes B.S., and the big business side of paintball. as soon as it collapses, we will start seeing:

american pb manufacturers again, who are small, and care.
small fields that are cool to play at
the game will go back to having fun instead of making money, it will be grass roots again, and sustain itself for the sake of playing. not competing. the way it used to be.

guaranteed, as soon as paintball stops becoming profitable, all the conglomerates like K2 will drop it like a hot potatoe.
and maybe smartparts will dissapear as well.

hopefully it will become too expensive for 13 y.o. kids moms to bankroll.
that means:
all the fashion crap will go away
the immaturity will decrease
maybe used gear prices will go back up
it will go back to being an adult game, like it used to be


please, please let it DIE
then all the front runners will go away. GOOD RIDDANCE

Never gonna happen.

[MANN]

maybe used gear prices will go back up

when did they go down. quality gear holds its value. xmags still sell for 1k+. S6s still go for 500+. The only thing that goes down is dye/ego/sp/etc

I just saw a minimag go for 255+ shipping on ebay. Prices are still good for quality markers/gear.

[Ninjeff]

After thinking about it, i realized, paintball pushed so hard to be accepted as a mainstream sport in the late 90s early 00s....everything was geared towards improving its image and showing the world we are a "real sport" and the holy grail was to be on TV. Well, we got that shot a bunch of times, and collectively discovered something we werent ready for:

Paintball sucks on TV.

I love this sport....so much...and i watch it on tv whenever i can, but wi "get it". Watch it with anyone else and they cant tell what the hell is going on....and you cant blame them. Its a hard sport to watch if you dont know whats whats, and especially since you cant really SEE the paint on tv. Once we all (the colelctive "we") realized TV wasnt all it was cracked up to be we kind of floundered.


The scenario scene, however, has been more than pulling its weight as far as keeping the $$$ rolling in. I mean, what was the attendance at D-Day last year? 4,000+ players? 4,000+ !!!!!! I mean sweet lord who would have thought THAT would happen, and happen almost every year? I know in 97 when i started, that was unheard of.
How ironic that the sport made such a hard push for so many years to get away from the "war" mentality of paintball. Tried to push the idea back and out and wear bright colors and have space-guns and play on airball fields...only to come full circle back into it.

Now, i will say that i love the "speedball" side of things. I love it. I like that aspect, but it needs a major over-haul.

[blackdeath]

Cheap quality paint - $40
All day air - $5
Field fee - $10

That is $55 to play. I don't shoot cheap quality paint, because I'd like to hit what I aim at. I can also make a case of paint last two days, because I dont' subscribe to "Accuracy by Volume."

Still, $55.00 to play one day is almost the price of admission at Disneyland. It isn't cheap. This doesn't include food, gas, travel time, or equipment cost to play. Paintball is not cheap to play.

That looks like what my standard weekend used to be right before I quit this last time in 2002. I would buy a case of paint on saturday. and use half case on sat and the other half on sunday. When I started playing in 95 it was a lot more expensive than that. So 60 bux a week end wasnt bad. I Loved the OLD autocockers. Got a 98 model that works great right now. Its not flashy but its got pretty much every nice upgrade except the hinge trigger. And I plan to use it at the local field again. Also got a original automar RT with the inteliframe. Them will be my 2 guns. Ive yet to be given a reason that a new electro whatever is worth it.

But I do remember back around 2000 when all the HIGH ROF guns started coming out. and the stupid little bratts that used them would run lots of people off the field simply because getting shot out once was fine. A three round burst that gets you out is ok. But 20 shots to "make sure" they are out just wasnt fun for the newer players. Heck it was a load of crap for us older players also.

Now a friend of mine is just starting to play. He is scared to play with one family i know simply because they all use angels. Big deal. Its a gun. They can get shot just the same. But in his head since it is an angel it will kick his butt.

IDK. I liked the old days when it was stricktly just friendly games. But like anything It changes. some for the better. some for the worse.

[armyboot]

Screaming, cursing, rampant cheating, lack of respect, etc etc. All these things are so prevalent especially in the tournament scene... Who wants to watch/support that?

Can you imagine if athletes in professional sports acted the same way?

[athomas]

Screaming, cursing, rampant cheating, lack of respect, etc etc. All these things are so prevalent especially in the tournament scene... Who wants to watch/support that?

Can you imagine if athletes in professional sports acted the same way?

Umm, they do.




Paintball in our area is bigger than it has ever been. It is cheaper than it has ever been. People have been complaining about the prices and locations and operators since the beginning of time in paintball. If someone closes shop, a new shop opens to replace it. It keeps growing because it is a great sport. I don't think its dying anytime soon.