Upgrading my knowledge on barrels

[Frizzle Fry]

i would say getting one piece, non-ported, bores would be the the most accurate you can get barrel wise other than using an apex (which if you match it right will give you an almost linear shot).

How can non-ported barrels increase accuracy? I'm no expert on the physics of paintball trajectories, but I'm an avid shooter and I've relied on porting in the barrels of my pistols and rifles for both increased accuracy and decreased muzzlejump. I've even got a Henry Vang modified barrel on one of my Brownings that's ported in such a way that it tightens the spread, increases accuracy and quiets the report without lengthening the barrel or tightening the bore like a choke.

From what I understand, it's random release of gasses that can throw off the trajectory of a slug or grouping of shot when it reaches the end of the barrel. Porting allows for a small release of those gasses while the projectile(s) are still being guided by the barrel, so that it is propelled in a more true path... I'd assume the same would be true of a paintball, especially when the propellant is significantly less powerful?

I've loved the barrel tests I've seen, but I'd like to see a little more about porting for accuracy/jump, and the use of muzzle brakes in paintball applications.

the self adjusting chronoing barrel idea has merit...that may be a fun project two sets of eyes, a board to control the dwell in .1ms increments depending on the chrono calculated from the time it takes to pass each eye. setting parameters may be difficult because ball breaks would have to be taken into consideration...this could also prove the acceleration theory as well...

Didn't the PVI Shocker (first electro) have a built-in chronograph that displayed on a screen? I know it wasn't self-adjusting, but I believe it was planned to have a "lockout" feature so you couldn't play hot. Doesn't matter because SP nixed the idea entirely and did their on thing ( ) but it woulda been cool.

[malJohann]

While this sounds good in theory, this idea is actually a non-starter.

That was my first thought too. This is more likely to have erratic results than have consistent results. The conditions under which the current paintball is being fired is different to those under which the next one will be fired. The only way IMO to do this would be through precise control of the firing of the current paintball.

So, basically you'd need say 30 eyes in a line down the length of the barrel which monitor acceleration and speed of the ball to control the dwell of the current firing cycle in a dynamic way. Obviously the biggest stumbling block here would be the speed and precision with which your solenoid can control the flow of gas.

The rest is up to micro processors and the programming thereof. [EDIT] For utmost control you'd likely need ambient temperature and humidity sensors too. Combine all of this with a learning processor and hey presto, you have an overpriced but consistent marker! Of course the price would come down over time. [/EDIT]

[dreadpirate]

I was thinking it could use one chrono, or a series of eyes, whichever, and record each subsequent value into a 10-shot circular buffer. The high and low value gets thrown out, the remaining 8 values averaged. It could be made to ignore any input that does not fall within a typical +/- range for the current average, thus hopefully ignoring broken paint. The amount of air per shot would be controlled by adding or subtracting a single increment following any shot which results in the velocity average being outside say +/- 1 FPS from the value set by the user. Better yet, make the 'dead zone' user-programmable, with suggested bands for 'Practice paint', 'Rec. Paint', and 'Tournament' paint, based on the typical fill variation found in each quality level. This would help alleviate chasing of the gauges, so to speak.

Yeah, it would cost $$$, but I'm sure -someone- would buy it.

[drg]

I was thinking it could use one chrono, or a series of eyes, whichever, and record each subsequent value into a 10-shot circular buffer. The high and low value gets thrown out, the remaining 8 values averaged. It could be made to ignore any input that does not fall within a typical +/- range for the current average, thus hopefully ignoring broken paint. The amount of air per shot would be controlled by adding or subtracting a single increment following any shot which results in the velocity average being outside say +/- 1 FPS from the value set by the user. Better yet, make the 'dead zone' user-programmable, with suggested bands for 'Practice paint', 'Rec. Paint', and 'Tournament' paint, based on the typical fill variation found in each quality level. This would help alleviate chasing of the gauges, so to speak.

Yeah, it would cost $$$, but I'm sure -someone- would buy it.

There is no way for this to work because during a normal, in-game situation, shot-to-shot variation is not caused by a predictable changing variable, they are caused by slight differences in the gun's operation and, most significantly, the paint. Neither of these things can be compensated for because they are essentially random.

You could use it to set initial velocity but after that you would want to lock the reg, as it would introduce unwanted instability.

[cockerpunk]

what you guys are missing is that barrel doesn't really do much. it sets up the initial conditions for the flight of the ball, thats it. it turns out that to have those initial conditions actually effect the paintballs flight and down range performance, it needs to be a truly ****ty barrel. like not even finished on the ID ****ty barrel.

the largest force on the paintball is simply due to the paintball traveling though air, which is something you can't deal with when it comes to equipment choice.

means your barrel makes little if any difference in any bore, porting pattern, or whatever, doesn't effect the flight of the ball much because the air itself has the largest effect on the paintball, much more then any initial condition can do.

[drg]

Not relatively still air, the ball itself is a larger influence; poor grouping and flyers are ball-related. you could shoot in a vacuum and a poor lumpy ball will still fly crappy compared to a nice round one.

[cockerpunk]

Not relatively still air, the ball itself is a larger influence; poor grouping and flyers are ball-related.

show me

and to the edit - show me.

[drg]

show me

Eh? Show you what? That an unbalanced ball won't fly just as well as a balanced one?

If you don't notice that better paint flies better ... I dunno what to tell you. Paint choice makes a HUGE difference.

You're really stretching a little too far in this "mythbusting" things to a point where you are making nonsensical, false claims just for impact.

[cockerpunk]

Eh? Show you what? That an unbalanced ball won't fly just as well as a balanced one?

If you don't notice that better paint flies better ... I dunno what to tell you. Paint choice makes a HUGE difference.

hey im the one who said paint is the biggest factor, i would find a nice tiny bore barrel and forget about it. nothing you can do barring changing the projectile itself. air has the largest effect on the paintball.

[drg]

You are saying two different things, paint IS an equipment choice.

hey im the one who said paint is the biggest factor, i would find a nice tiny bore barrel and forget about it. nothing you can do barring changing the projectile itself. air has the largest effect on the paintball.

I think the internal balance of the paintball has a large effect on a cleanly fired, relatively round paintball. Case in point is the flyer ball or separated paintball, it experiences severe deviation without severe difference in shape or shell condition.

[cockerpunk]

nope, the airflow over the paintball is much larger then anything happening inside the paintball. essentially nothing is happening inside the paintball while forces perpendicular to the flight path measured in pounds are dancing all around the back of the paintball.

buy a decent small bore barrel, and spend the rest on paint. nothing is going to change your accuracy on a fundamental scale until we decide to shoot a really crappy lightweight semi-spheriod.

balance? ever seen a paintball that wasn't balanced? misshapen, of course, but thats due to airflow over the none sphere. its not a balance issue, its the airflow issue.

[drg]

ever seen a paintball that wasn't balanced?

All the time. don't tell me you haven't?

[cockerpunk]

All the time. don't tell me you haven't?

what is misballanced? you measure the center of mass on a paintball? you get a bunch of little scales and measure the weight distribution? how can you claim to know the center of mass in paintball filled with a liquid?

its a sphere ... you might see what looks like an "unbalanced" sphere because it rolls when you set it on one side. but that isn't due to weight issues, that due to shape issues.

and shape issues cause the vortex shedding to not be random. and that causes inaccuracy.

[drg]

No, a separated paintball can be round but clearly imbalanced. It's not that hard to see.

Separated paint just doesn't fly as well as unseparated paint of the same type and roundness. You can also have two nice round balls that differ in accuracy.

Just because nothing is "going on" inside of a paintball, doesn't mean that what's inside cannot affect the flight of the ball. Press a weight in one side of a reball and it'll become dramatically less acurate.

[cockerpunk]

No, a separated paintball can be round but clearly imbalanced. It's not that hard to see.

Separated paint just doesn't fly as well as unseparated paint of the same type and roundness.

Just because nothing is "going on" inside of a paintball, doesn't mean that what's inside cannot affect the flight of the ball. Press a weight in one side of a reball and it'll become dramatically less acurate.

ok so besides 9 moth old none mixed up paint ...

a miss weighted paintball will fly like a weather vane. meaning, the heavy part will lead and the light part will follow. this weight distribution will actually destroy spin. this is part of the reason why the FS round work, because the heavy part leads.